How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue

So Worth It Podcast, with Jackie Ellis and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:01):

Hey there, and thanks for tuning into So Worth It Today. Today I am

interviewing Kris Jones. And Kris Jones is a StoryBrand guide and founder of

Red Door Designs. So she helps self-employed women craft website copy that

sells so that they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. I

love this conversation with Kris because we talk a lot about storytelling, and

we have this in common. We both love StoryBrand by, or building a StoryBrand by

Donald Miller. She talks about the book a little bit in this episode, but it

was really one of the early books that I read, I want to say early-ish books

that I read about creating compelling storytelling copy. And so I love that she

brings that up here. So she's going to share with us in this episode kind of

what makes a compelling story and how that transfers into your business. We get

used to reading books and expecting story there, watching movies and expecting

story there. But it's kind of like, okay, well if story is the compelling

thing, if that's what everyone wants to hear, how do we incorporate that into

our brand, into our business? So stay tuned because that's what Kris Jones is

about to share.

Speaker 1 (01:30):

This is the So Worth It podcast, a place where we're talking about

growing a business while raising a family. Not to mention all of the crazy, fun

and hard stuff that comes with it. I'm sure I don't have to tell you none of

it's easy, but it is so worth it. If that sounds like your sort of thing, stick

around. I'm your host, Jackie Ellis. Welcome to the show. Alright, today we

have Kris Jones on the show. Kris, I'm so happy to have you. Thank you for

being here.

Speaker 2 (02:06):

I am so happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:08):

So let's jump right in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you,

what you do, a little bit about your background?

Speaker 2 (02:15):

Sure. Yeah. My name is Kris and I own a boutique firm in Portland,

Oregon called Red Door Designs. I created this business over 20 years ago,

which is insane to think about, but I've just been an entrepreneur at heart

from the age of eight. I just got my own business cards actually at the age of

eight and was pedaling goods to my kind neighbors as a kid, and I was just

always kind of drawn to the freedom that comes with owning your own business.

And so as I got older, I got really into graphic design and telling a story

visually, and then eventually kind of became a web designer. And in my

experience creating websites for clients, I recognized that there was this

gigantic problem that everybody that I worked with had, and it was creating

copy for their website. Literally every client I worked with was like, I don't

know how to write copy for my website.

Speaker 2 (03:34):

And I was doing the design work piece of it. So I would say, well, you

can do it. Just put something on this piece of paper. This is years and years

ago. And eventually I realized I can't create websites for people unless I

really understand the strategy behind website copywriting and how to create

copy that not only tells the story, but also helps really convert new clients

and helps my clients grow their business and make more money. And so I had

always really, in hindsight, it's always interesting to look back on the

journey of how things came to be, and it's a lot clearer now than it was in

that messy middle phase that we all go through. But essentially what happened

was I was always naturally drawn to storytelling. And again, in hindsight, I

was doing side passion projects that were very much around storytelling.

Speaker 2 (04:43):

I would take on these projects like documentaries just for fun. I'd

create a documentary, and ironically the documentaries would be about

storytelling in some way, shape, or form. So I would tell a story about

storytelling in these kind of side projects, and I think it was just kind of

following my heart's desire around what it means to tell a good story and to

figure out how to do that. And in 2017, I connected with a guy named Donald

Miller who wrote a book that a lot of people know about called Building a

StoryBrand. And he is a memoirist who transitioned into a business guy or a

business writer I should say. He's much more than that, but he is passionate

about business too. And so he wrote eight memoirs about himself, which he

claims he is like, I am officially a narcissist if I can write eight memoirs.

Speaker 2 (05:54):

Wow. So he's like, I got to do different here. Let's write about

business instead. But anyway, after really mastering the art of storytelling

through memoir writing, he got into business and he started his own business

and hit a lot of road bumps through that process. But what he ended up doing

was applying what he knew about storytelling to the way that he marketed his

own business. He created this framework that he talks about in the book

Building a Story brand, which I highly recommend if you're any kind of

entrepreneur, even if you're not, even if you just like stories and

storytelling. It's a great book to kind of break down the components of

storytelling. And so I met him in 2017 and his work was really resonating and

aligned with the work that I was already doing. And so I dove deeper and deeper

and deeper into that and just watched what was happening with my clients.

Speaker 2 (07:08):

It was really profound what was happening with their businesses and what

their website was doing for them. Once we were telling a story that was really

connecting with their ideal clients, and I tried it, I would implement the

framework and I got better and better at it as the years went on and I tried it

with a million different types of businesses. So coaches, consultants, brick

and mortar. I typically work with service-based business owners and

entrepreneurs, but literally I tried it with big companies. I work with Nike

sometimes, and I worked with Amazon even. So I've had lots of big clients, but

my heart is really with the solopreneur, the female solopreneur that is drawn

to the freedom that comes with owning your own business. And the reason I love

that so much is because that's what I am. So I can totally, I get it, I relate

to those people, but I've been in the industry so long that I've had the

opportunity to work with some really well-known brands.

Speaker 2 (08:22):

And again, it just kept working this, when you implement story in your

business, whether you're Nike or Amazon or you are the bookkeeper down the

street, it works, it resonates, and it resonates because we're human and story

is really what has connected us as humans from the beginning of time. We've all

gathered around the fire from thousands of years ago and told stories, shared

stories, learned through stories. And so our brains are really wired for it,

and that's why it's so effective. And really we're just selling to other

humans, whether you're a big company or a small company or one of the things

that I've learned about storytelling is that they're way more memorable than

just facts. So when you tell a story, people remember it. It's actually 22 times

more memorable than just telling a fact. So if I told you it's really important

to provide value for your clients, you'd be like, okay, well that's good fact

to know.

Speaker 2 (09:47):

But if I told you a story about how I did something that added value and

what I did and how that person reacted, and then what we all learned through

that story, it will be committed to memory. So when you think about maybe the

last event you went to or workshop you attended, the person who was presenting

might've spoken for, I don't know, 40 minutes. And if I asked you to tell me

about that, what was your takeaway? You would remember a two or three minute

story that they shared, shared, and you'd probably forget the rest.

Speaker 2 (10:32):

So it really behooves us to tell stories in our marketing if we want

people to remember us, if that's the goal, which it's, especially when you're a

business owner, it's always good to be remembered, and it's one way to really

stand out in a crowded market. So the thing about storytelling too that's

really interesting is that our brains find stories just completely

irresistible. When someone begins with, let me tell you a story, and then

everybody shuts up, everybody leans in and they're like, okay, what is it? We

cannot resist stories. And another example that's kind of interesting to think

about is just the power of story. So in this day and age, when you think about

our never ending to-do lists. If you're a mom or a business owner or a working

mom or a stay at home mom, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (11:49):

We have a million things on our to do list. We have text messages coming

at us, we've got our inboxes full of emails, we've got people needing our help,

we've got social commitments to get to, and we're just distracted all the time,

and it's just amplifying as the years go by. And now instead of just text,

we've got Slack and we've got Vox and all these dinging, ding, dinging, ding,

ding, right? So it's next to impossible to kind of put a pause on all that

that's coming in. But if you go to a movie, you walk in, you sit down, you've

got your popcorn, you've got your Coke, and maybe a Butterfinger or something

like that. Anyway, the lights dimm and you forget about everything else for 90

minutes. What in this day and age has the power to do that? You don't check

your phone, you don't think about your to-do list the story.

Speaker 2 (13:04):

All movies are really done well as far as storytelling goes because it

costs millions of dollars to make them so they know what they're doing, they

know how to tell a story, and you sit there and you're engrossed and pulled

into that movie for 90 minutes. Nothing on the planet has the power to capture

our brain in that way these days. So that's just an example of why storytelling

is so powerful. And when you talk about your website or even telling stories in

person, that's the power behind it is just capturing people's attention and

engaging in a meaningful way.

Speaker 1 (13:49):

Yeah. I'm glad that you bring up the movie thing. I was just thinking

about that. I actually read that book, gosh, what is it called?

Speaker 2 (13:58):

Building a StoryBrand?

Speaker 1 (13:59):

Building a StoryBrand. I was thinking it was creating building a

StoryBrand about the same time that you did. And I remember him talking about

movies as examples, and I can specifically remember I was reading in the car,

which I never do. I normally get car sick from reading, but I was reading in

the car and I kept reading lines to my husband because he's a big movie

watcher, not so much a reader, but he loves movies. And I was giving him the

examples. I was like, oh my gosh, I've never thought of this. This is a great

example of a story, blah, blah, blah. And he's just like, yeah. I'm like, this

is so exciting. But we go to the movie and we expect to be told a story. And

what I'm thinking right now as you're talking about web design and websites, we

don't, well, you do copywriters and designers probably do, but your average

person probably doesn't go to a website and expect to be told a story. So can

you tell us a little bit more about what that means and what that looks like?

Speaker 2 (15:02):

Definitely. Yeah. So we've all grown up hearing stories. Our parents

read us books, and they always start with Once Upon a Time, there was this

character and that character. And that's why it's so confusing. So even when

you read the book, it's like, okay, I get it. I get the components of story,

but how does this actually translate to my business? How does it translate

tangibly to my website? And let me break down the components of every single

story you've ever watched, whether it's a book or a movie, and then I'll walk

you through how to apply that to your actual website. So essentially, every

hero in every story has a problem, every hero, so every story, sorry, every

story begins with a hero that has a problem and they don't know how to overcome

that problem a hundred percent. You could look at every book, every movie,

everything.

Speaker 2 (16:12):

So there's a hero who has a problem that they don't know how to overcome

that hero. About 20 minutes into a movie, about halfway down your website,

Paige, but I'll get into your website here in a few minutes, but a little bit

into the movie or the book, that hero meets an experienced guide who can help

them overcome their problem. And that hero helps them get to the point where

that guide helps the hero experience success and avoid failure. And so when I

talk about this, let me give you some examples of movies of hero guide

relationships. This is really probably the most, there are two really important

things I want your audience to walk away with, and this is one of them. So

think about the movie Karate Kid. I don't know if you guys have seen that one,

but there's the Karate Kid and Mr.

Speaker 2 (17:14):

Miyagi. Mr. Miyagi is the guide, and the karate kid is the hero. The

hero is actually the weakest character of any story because we don't know if

that karate kid is going to win, if he's going to be able to learn karate and

master the skill enough to win the competition. But Mr. Miyagi knows how to do

that, and he can show the karate kid what he needs to learn in order to do

that. He can wax on, he can wax off, he can refinish the fence, but we don't

find out until the very end of the movie if that hero succeeds or not. Or when

you think about another hero guide relationship is Luke Skywalker and Yoda

probably the most famous relationship that everybody knows about. And then

we've also got Katniss and Hamit in the Hunger Games. So Katniss, she's an

incredible hero, but we don't know if she is going to succeed or fail.

Speaker 2 (18:21):

And Hamit comes in, he's won the Hunger Games before he knows how to get

her to the point of success and help her avoid failure. Now, an important thing

to note is that Hamit is not perfect. He is her guide, but guides don't have to

be perfect. They're imperfect. Hamit happens to be a raging alcoholic. So you

as the guide don't have to be perfect. And what I really want to communicate

here is start thinking about if you're business owners, start thinking about

yourself as the guide and your clients as the hero. And you are the one, they

come to you with a problem they don't know how to overcome, and you are the

guide who can help them overcome their problem so they can experience success

and avoid failure. And so now you can see how this translates to you as an

entrepreneur when you step into that role.

Speaker 2 (19:24):

And the next question is really, okay, well, how does that show up on my

website? And it's very, very simple. So a lot of people think, okay, I got to

tell a story on my website. I should probably talk about how I came to be a

business owner and how my great grandfather traveled across the oceans to get

to America or whatever. But the beautiful thing is, and this is the gift I will

give to you today, your story is not about you. Yay. We don't have to write

about ourselves because we already know everything about ourselves. So your

story is about your hero, it's about your customer. And so really the key is

honing in on the problem that your customers are facing and really articulating

that problem in a way that helps them feel heard and understood. So they show

up on your website, and immediately the first thing you want to do is just say,

Hey, this is where you are.

Speaker 2 (20:35):

This is what you're struggling with. These are the challenges that

you're facing. So remember, the first part of every story is that a hero has a

problem they don't know how to overcome. So want to acknowledge that, and this

will shift the way that you even watch movies or read books. Start the book and

you'll be like, oh, there's the hero. Here's the problem. He can't overcome it

or she can't overcome it. Now, this is why we keep reading because our brains

can't disengage until we know that problem has been or can be solved. So always

start with the problem on your website. An example might be, let's say I'm a

coach and I help people get physically fit. And so my clients in that role, my

clients might be struggling with lots of different things. Maybe they have

aches and pains that they don't know how to fix, or maybe they have a big goal

that they want to accomplish, they want to run a marathon, but they can't even

run a mile.

Speaker 2 (21:46):

And so we want to start the website just resonating with them and

helping them be seen and heard and showing them compassion and saying, I get

where you are. I get the challenges that you're struggling with. And a funny

thing happens in our brain as humans, when we do that immediately, if you can

articulate my problem, I think you're the best one that can fix it. I

automatically just think the more clearly you can articulate my problem. And we

can do this in a really simple conversational language. You want to run a

marathon, you've got a big physical goal ahead of you, but you can't even run a

mile right now, and that's really daunting. So we want to tap into those

emotions that people are feeling around the problem that they're experiencing,

and then we want to show them on the website.

Speaker 2 (22:55):

A lot of people tell me, okay, well, I don't know if I really want to

start with the problem. It feels kind of negative, and I don't want to be like

a Debbie Downer. And it's like, well, this is not about negativity. This is

about empathy, and it's about helping them feel seen and heard and creating

that connection. So through articulating the problem, that's what's going on.

And in addition to that, they're like, okay, I can't disengage from this

website. I have to read more because I have to find out if this problem can be

solved. And that's why we stay in the movie theater for an hour and a half. If

the problem were solved, if the problem were solved in five minutes, we'd get

up and leave the movie because stick, nothing would stick around, keep us there.

So we stay engaged with the website until we know that one of the most

important things a guide can do for their clients is really show them what's

possible.

Speaker 2 (23:57):

So they're stuck in this problem, they don't know how to overcome it,

that's why they're at your website. That's why they've started to take action

to try and find somebody that can solve this problem for them. And so you've

identified that on your website. And then the next thing you really want to do

is show them what's possible for them. Show them what success will look like.

And the mistake that happens a lot that I see on most websites is that number

one, the business owner or the entrepreneur paints themselves as the hero

instead of the guide. And there's only room for one hero in every story. So

when you do that, when you talk too much about yourself, you kick them out of

this story, they can't see themselves in your story. And this is really less about

telling a story and more about inviting your client into a narrative with you

where they can imagine themselves in a story with you, where they're the hero

and you are the guide.

Speaker 2 (25:07):

And so as the guide, what's really important to do is show them what

success is going to look like. And that's not like your process. Again, we

don't want to overwhelm them with more about you. They want to know what are

they going to get from this? How am I going to benefit from working with you?

And so we want to make sure that we follow up that problem by showing them

what's possible. And this can be three simple things that you can show them. So

kind of going back to that, if I were a physical trainer or a health coach, I

might say, reach your run the marathon you've been dreaming about feel, feel

physically fit and capable in your own body, and what else might, another

benefit might be? And shed the 15 pounds that you've been carrying around for

the last five years. So you kind of get the idea of it. It's like we're human.

We're constantly scanning our environment to figure out how am I going to

benefit from this? What's in this for me? It's not a selfish thing, it's just

the way we're wired and it's the reason that we've come so far in our

evolution. And so as the guide, you want to paint that picture of what's

possible for them, and then you basically weave in your service as the solution

to the problem.

Speaker 1 (26:44):

Very cool. I love that. I was thinking as you were talking about the

problem about what we face with many of our clients actually, and that is not

being truly understanding the problem. We have a lot of, maybe not our clients,

but some of our students that take our marketing course will come to us and

say, I don't feel like I have a big enough problem. I don't feel like, I guess

that's probably the thing that they say the most. I don't feel like I have a

big enough problem, or they don't understand what the actual problem is. When

you're talking about the website and starting with the problem, I think it's

pretty safe to say that's a very important piece to figure out.

Speaker 2 (27:31):

The most important piece, the single most important piece. When you

start with the problem, things will begin to shift. So give me an example of

somebody that what they did when they said their problem, what was their work

when they said their problem's? Not big

Speaker 1 (27:48):

Enough. I knew that you were going to ask me that, and I was trying to

think of an example. Okay, well, this is a little bit different. I mean, we're

not designing a website for them, but just in terms of facing a problem, we

have a student who sells artwork. It doesn't feel like there's an obvious

problem there yet. We all know that people buy tons of artwork every day.

People can't see your office, but you have artwork on the wall behind you.

People spend a lot of money on artwork, so people want it, people buy it, but

what's the problem?

Speaker 2 (28:32):

Okay, I get that. And it's interesting. I just bought a piece of art

yesterday, so I can really relate to this. So the problem that I was

experiencing that compelled me to buy that artwork was that there's an area in

my home that just falls flat. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel aligned

with who I am. It doesn't energize me. And so as an artist, you might say, this

is a really good example because I think a lot of people do feel this way.

What's the problem that I'm solving with art? You're like, well, art is kind

of, it's just a joyful thing that people do, but it might be, and a lot of the

reason people buy art is probably subconscious, but people that buy art, they

want their space to make them feel good. And this is another way to kind of dig

into the problems.

Speaker 2 (29:37):

So let's talk about why they buy art. They buy art because they want

their space to feel good. They want it to be a reflection of them. They want to

be surrounded by things that resonate with their heart. They want to feel proud

to have people over to their space and to entertain, retain. They want to have

an energy and a vibrancy to the things that they look at. And so those are the

things that I benefit from when I buy art that really is aligned with me. And

then you just want to flip that on its head. Well, what's the opposite of that?

And that's how we dig into what the problem is. So your space doesn't feel

finished, you don't feel delighted. You want to feel a sense of delight, but

your place kind of falls flat. You want to feel inspired when you wake up in

the morning, you want your place to be a reflection. You want your home to be a

true reflection of who you are. You want to be able to invite people over to

your home and to have it be a place that feels peaceful or energized or

whatever you're going after. So you think about why they want to work with you

and then do the opposite of that for the problem.

Speaker 1 (31:10):

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, if you think about it, every single

thing that we buy is because we had some kind of problem. I bought shoe laces

because I couldn't tie my shoes. I bought a spatula because I needed to

scramble my eggs or whatever. But I think sometimes we just get so caught up in

what we do or so close to what we do, that sometimes it's just easy to forget

the problem that we're solving for people. Or maybe it doesn't feel like when

we say problem, I think maybe that's the problem. It doesn't feel like a

problem. Right,

Speaker 2 (31:50):

Right. Yeah, that's very meta. Not always,

Speaker 1 (31:54):

Always. Obviously things are more obvious than others, but

Speaker 2 (31:59):

Well, you bring up a really good point. First off, the initial point

that I want to touch on is just that so much of this happens unconsciously. So

we're being driven by story all the time, but we're not even aware of it. And

so we're really making decisions based on our emotions and the emotions and

feelings that we want to overcome. So you bought a spatula because you broke an

egg and put it into a pan, and you were frustrated because you only had a

spoon, and it was really annoying. So you're feeling frustrated and annoyed,

and you just want to make the eggs. So that's why we get motivated, and that's

why when you talk about the problem, you really want to speak to the emotion In

storytelling, we think that people want to work with us because they want to

solve a problem, which is true. They really want to solve the emotion that's

underneath that problem. Frustration, defeat, and lack of inspiration. Yeah,

just annoyance.

Speaker 1 (33:20):

I just want to point out for a second, what you just did to the egg

story was create a story out of what I said about a spatula. Okay. I just want

to point that out in case anybody didn't catch that. I said, I bought a spatula

because I wanted to scramble eggs. If I say that, that is who caress, right?

But as soon as you said you crack an egg and then had to stir it with a spoon,

I'm picturing a metal spoon against my metal pan scraping, and it's just, oh,

nails on a chalkboard. That is just a great example of a little tiny mini story

that just gets imprinted in your brain. You can see it, you can feel it, you

can hear it. So simple. Good example.

Speaker 2 (34:08):

I actually got chills of annoyance while you're talking about a metal

spoon on a metal pan. I had a head to toe visceral reaction to the story that I

told you that then you told me

Speaker 1 (34:25):

We can just keep going.

Speaker 2 (34:30):

That's the power of story. Yeah, I think that's so great, and it's such

a great point is you could go over to your neighbor's house and say, I bought a

spatula today. Or you could say, you know what? I got up today and I was making

breakfast for my family. I cracked the egg, I poured it into my pan, and I had

nothing but a metal spoon to make the eggs with. And I got online and they're

like, what happened next? Is this problem going to get solved? And then you go,

and you'll never believe I got online and I found this company called Our

Place, or I'm trying to remember the name of the brand. I found this pan

company called Our Place Pans, and not only do they have the pan, but they have

a wooden spoon built into the handle. And so I never have to have this problem

again.

Speaker 2 (35:28):

I bought the pan, it was 80 bucks, and I am a rockstar. Tomorrow I'm

going to make breakfast for my family. We're going to have a movie morning and

snuggle. Notice the success that's now happening because you bought this pan I

actually did buy a few weeks ago that has a metal metal spatula, or I mean a

wooden spatula built into the handle. Cool. And so this is a really funny

example that you brought up, but yeah, I mean, it's that simple. It doesn't

have to be about, this is a good example of how to do it outside of your

website. It's all the same. It's the same ingredients for your website or a

story you're telling your neighbor.

Speaker 1 (36:18):

Yeah, good stuff. Oh my gosh, it is funny. I think after listening to

this, people are going to go watch a movie or watch tv or even commercials.

Commercials are getting so good at storytelling, in my opinion, the ones that

make you cry.

Speaker 2 (36:35):

Oh my gosh, yeah, just watch the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (36:40):

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, they better be telling great stories

for the money that they're paying for that airtime, right? Right. But now our

listeners are going to be seeing stories everywhere, so that's awesome, and

hopefully bringing those stories into their business too, if they own a

business. But if they maybe need help with that and they wanted to reach out to

you, where would they find you?

Speaker 2 (37:06):

Well, I'm going to answer that question, but before I go there, I want

to let your listeners know that literally everybody struggles with writing for

themselves or writing for their own business. It is a universal pain in the

butt to write for yourself. And not only is it annoying and frustrating, but

it's often in every case I've been exposed to it's next to impossible. So I

just want to let your listeners off the hook around being frustrated when they

try and write for themselves. And there's a really blatant reason why this

happens, and it's because you are too close to your own self. You're too close

to your own business. So when you kind of imagine yourself inside of a bottle,

let's just say any kind of bottle, like an absolute vodka bottle or some kind

of a bottle, right?

Speaker 1 (38:12):

I like that.

Speaker 2 (38:13):

Yeah, I know, right? It's Friday, so you're inside the bottle, but

you're trying to read the label that can only be read outside the bottle. And

that's why it's so hard. We're just so close to not only our own selves, but

when we are the business, we are even that much closer to our own business. So

it's really, really essential to get some help and have someone who can look at

the bottle from the outside and help you get perspective and clarity around how

to write for yourself. That

Speaker 1 (38:53):

Is a great analogy. I love that. I've never heard that. That's perfect.

You even chose the right bottle. Just saying. Love it.

Speaker 2 (39:02):

And there's also a thing too. If you've been in business long enough,

even a few years, this happens to all of us. We get the curse of knowledge,

which just means we know so much about our own business that we've forgotten

what it's like not to know what we know. And that asking outside help and

perspective to help you write your copy is a great way just for someone with

fresh eyes to come in and remind you to not speak too much about things that

your clients don't know yet that can make them feel stupid if we are using

terminology or industry lingo that they don't really know about yet, and it's

all unintentional, but it happens so much. So all that to say, let yourself off

the hook. If writing has been a struggle for you, if writing has been

frustrating for you, if you have been putting, if you've been procrastinating

around writing your own copy, that's why. I mean, and there's really legitimate

reasons why, and everybody experiences that. So what I want to say is this,

hiring someone to write your copy for you, I've found that actually doesn't

work. Writing copy for yourself, that actually doesn't work. What I found after

20 years in this industry, and those are the two options people have, right?

Speaker 1 (40:38):

I'm scratching my

Speaker 2 (40:39):

Head, we're in a pickle here.

Speaker 2 (40:48):

So it's like, believe me, I've tried it all and after 20 years, I'm

like, how do we solve this problem? I can't write for myself. I can hire

somebody else, but that just doesn't, I can waste a lot of money hiring

somebody else. Number one, a sales page can cost 10 grand. People are throwing

10 grand to copywriters to write their website copy for them. And copywriters,

I'm not trying to dison copywriters at all. I consider myself a copywriter as

well. But the problem with that is that you're your own business. It's your

own. It needs to resonate fully with who you are. So when you hire someone to

go right away from you in their own silo, they're unable to get fully aligned

with your voice and who you are. So they come back, they give you the copy, and

you're like, eh, I kind of like it, but it doesn't quite feel like me.

Speaker 2 (41:57):

It's just these words don't quite, it doesn't feel like my voice. And if

you want your copy on your website to really tell your story, to really

resonate with who you are and really be aligned with both you and connect with

your clients, the only way to do that is to write your copy collaboratively and

bring in somebody who knows strategy, who knows storytelling, and who knows how

to pull out the information that's inside of you and who can really, like I

said, collaboratively create the copy with you. So we're using your words and

every step of the way, making sure that it's aligned. Nobody knows your clients

better than you do. Nobody knows your voice better than you do, but it's really

helpful to partner with a copywriter that can really work with you to make sure

that it's completely dialed in. And so that leads me into the work that I do.

Speaker 2 (43:10):

I work, what's so hard about copywriting is that we don't want to be

stuck doing it ourselves. Even if you took a copywriting course, you're still

stuck doing it yourself. So I offer a one-on-one collaborative offer that

allows us to work together. So I hold your hand and make sure that it's done

right. I ask you the exact questions that I need to pull out those really

wonderful nuggets of your story, and then I put the puzzle together and we

create the copy every step of the way, making sure it's really aligned with you

and your voice, and the whole thing happens. The whole thing takes two and a

half hours total, so we're all busy. We all don't have time. This does not have

to take even a day or a week. It can take two and a half hours. And if you are

interested in doing that, you can find me@grow.red door designs.com.

Speaker 2 (44:17):

That's grow.red door designs.com, and that's for people who are just

done trying to do it themselves. They're ready to hire somebody to

collaboratively work with them and create their copy in two and a half hours.

Now, if you just want to dip your toe into what creates compelling copy and

what makes a good story, then you can go to clarity with Kris.com, and that's Kris

with a K, so Clarity with Kris with a K, clarity with Kris.com, and Kris is

with a K. And there you can take my five minute workshop and I will break down

the fundamentals of story and how to create your own compelling story.

Speaker 1 (45:03):

That sounds awesome. I did not know that you were going to say two and a

half hours. Yeah. That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (45:13):

Yeah, I mean, I think it's because I've been doing it so long that I

have figured out how to streamline the process in a way that it's just very

efficient, very effective, and shockingly fun.

Speaker 1 (45:30):

Oh, I like

Speaker 2 (45:30):

That. I mean, everybody I work with is like, oh my gosh, this is

actually really fun. It's fun because you're not stuck alone and you are

watching it come together so quickly, and then you get to check that damn thing

off your list.

Speaker 1 (45:45):

Oh, I like that too.

Speaker 2 (45:46):

Update the website. Copy. Done.

Speaker 1 (45:49):

Perfect. Well, thank you for sharing those links. We'll also put 'em in

the show notes so that people can find you. It has been a pleasure talking to

you. So lovely. And thank you for sharing all the information about

storytelling and business and copy. I loved it. Loved it. Thank you so much,

Speaker 2 (46:08):

Jackie. It's been so great, and what an honor to get to connect with

your audience. So thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (46:14):

Thank you. Thanks so much for listening today. I hope you enjoyed this

episode as much as I did. As always, you can find show notes, links and more

over@jackieellis.com. And if we haven't connected yet, make sure you come find

me on Instagram at I am Jackie Ellis, and shoot me a dmm. Let me know what

episode you listened to and what you thought. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks

so much for being brave, being amazing, and just being you. I can't wait until

next time.