How Effective Storytelling Can Get You More Clients

The Simpler Business Podcast

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Welcome to the Simpler Business Podcast, where we talk

about ways to do what you love and serve your people in a way that brings you

income and freedom. I'm your host, Marissa Roberts. Join me as I chat with my

favorite entrepreneurs about how they simplify their biz so that you can

simplify yours.

Speaker 2 (00:20):

You started your business because you love what you do,

but no one told you you'd need to be a marketer as well as a business owner to

actually make money. And that part kind of sucks. We all know that if we want

our business to be a business and not a hobby, we need to make sales. We need

to make an income. But if you are not naturally good at sales, this can be a

real sticking point. It's hard to spend time on something when you don't enjoy

it, and it's really easy to procrastinate on it when you'd rather be doing the

stuff that you actually love. As a result, many websites have a very basic

announcement style copy that fills the page, but doesn't make any sales.

Converting website visitors into paying customers is a must for every

successful business. So where do we start?

(01:13):

Unfortunately, simply whacking a buy now button up on your

homepage isn't going to do the trick. You need good copy on your website to

build a connection with your reader and to show them why buying from you is a

great idea. You need to take them down a pathway that shows them what they're

missing out on if they don't buy from you, and you need to do it in a way that

makes them feel good about making that purchase. Luckily, you don't need to

spend years honing your copywriting skills in order to write those high

converting words. You just need Kris Jones. I'm so excited to have Kris on the

show today. She's the founder of Red Door Designs and a story brand guide. Kris

has over 20 years experience with clients like Nike under her belt, and she's

extremely passionate about helping business owners and entrepreneurs create

website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what

they do best. Kris believes creating copy that sells should be quick and easy,

and that your website can be strategically set up to convert new leads with

ease. Her approach is based in authenticity, trust, connection, and

storytelling methods that convert without being pushy, which makes me so happy

because I really believe that sales should be a great experience for both you

and your customer. So welcome, Kris. I'm so happy that you're here today.

Speaker 3 (02:34):

Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:38):

Oh my gosh, I learned so much from my very first visit to

your website. And it's funny because you have a really powerful training. It's short,

it's simple, it gets right to the point, and it gave me so many light bulb

moments. And then it's funny because I was watching your training and then I

was on your website going, you're right. There's a little bit of that there and

a bit of that there. And oh, it does do this to me as the consumer. It was

really quite a magical experience. So I can tell that exactly what you're

talking about when it comes to using stories to sell, because I've seen it

firsthand. It's very, very exciting once you kind of catch onto it, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (03:19):

It's really, really exciting. I mean, the beautiful thing

is we as humans are really wired for story. We've been telling stories since

the beginning of time, so it's really no mystery that there's somewhat of a

framework or a formula around how to tell a good story. But what's really cool

is how to take that framework and apply it to your marketing storytelling for

your own business because there's a story there and there's a way to tell that

story that will work for you and really be effective for your business and

actually be fun and easy to share. So yes, it's ridiculously exciting. And as

we chatted about a little bit before, once you understand the formula, it does

change the way you watch movies, read books, visit websites, because you start

to really understand those core fundamentals of storytelling.

Speaker 2 (04:17):

Yeah, that's so true. I think our listeners will know

exactly why storytelling's important for movies and books and entertainment.

But when it comes to branding, I know a lot of people kind of stop there and

go, oh, I don't really have a story for my brand or my product. A story doesn't

really relate to it, but actually that's not the case. So why do you think

having a story is so important when it comes to a brand and marketing?

Speaker 3 (04:44):

Well, I'll start by sharing that. We're all very busy,

right? In this day and age we've got text messages coming through. We've got 18

things on our to-do list. We're running our own businesses, and it's really

hard to capture our attention. But when you go to a movie, you sit down and

suddenly everything in your life disappears and you fully engage with that

movie for a full hour and a half. Nothing has the power to do that, but story.

So the way that translates to marketing is that it captures people's attention.

It gets them engaged with you. It gets them invested in the characters of the

story. And here's the beautiful gift for the business owner around story, and

this is going to surprise a lot of people. Your brand story isn't about you, so

you're off the hook. You're totally off the hook. You don't have to do a bunch

of writing about yourself.

(05:51):

We're talking about a way of telling a story that is

inviting your customers or your clients into a story with you where they're the

hero of the story and you are the guide in the story. So it's really a powerful

way to create connection, authenticity, trust, and it's a beautiful way if

they're a right fit for you to show them what's possible for their life if they

work with you, and also if that's something they want, then to motivate them to

click on that schedule a call button or whatever your main call to action is.

Speaker 2 (06:33):

Yeah, that's such a good point. That was such a big light

bulb then when you said, well, no, the story doesn't have to be about your

brand. The story is about your potential customer. That's so true. And it

really takes the pressure off because you don't have to worry about, oh, I'm

being show offy, or I'm just kind of boosting myself up and making myself look

like a guru. It's not about that. It's about the person that you are helping

that makes it so much easier.

Speaker 3 (07:01):

And the reason for that is because as humans, the reason

we've survived over thousands and thousands of years is because we're

constantly scanning our environments to figure out how we're going to survive

and thrive. And so whether we're looking at websites or we're out in the forest

where we're always trying to figure out, okay, is this going to help me

survive? Is this going to help me thrive? How am I going to benefit from

whatever I'm doing here? And the same thing is happening when someone's coming

to your website. They're literally asking themselves, how am I going to be

better for this? How is this going to benefit me? And so we've really just got

to answer that question and make that really clear, and that's why we make it

about them, because that's what they care about. And it's not like the human

race is super self-centered, but it's really just how we're wired to thrive.

And so we might as well just play on that brain chemistry.

Speaker 2 (08:07):

Yeah, that's such a good point. So why do you think then

that entrepreneurs struggle to write copy? I think a lot of us are clear about

who our potential clients are or our most ideal clients, and we know how our

product or service will help people. But turning that into words on a page, a

lot of us have trouble with that. I love copywriting and I still struggle

after, what, 11 years in the business? Why do you think we have so much trouble

getting those words on the page?

Speaker 3 (08:35):

Well, number one, I just want to echo your sentiment that

it's hard for everybody. It is truly, for most people, it feels impossible.

Even if you're a good writer, even if you have multiple college degrees, it

doesn't matter. And that's, I think what I want to say, nearly a hundred

percent of the people that I work with come to me, and that's one of the first

things out of their mouths. I should be able to do this. I got straight A's in

school. Why is this so hard? I've been trying to do this for two years now, and

finally they come to me sometimes feeling defeated. And it's like, no, no, no.

This is hard for everybody because there's a few reasons. But the main one is

that as business owners, especially if you're self-employed, you are the

business. So it's a lot like being inside of a bottle and trying to read the

label from the outside.

(09:37):

You don't have that perspective that you need to really

clearly communicate yourself, your own business, and to share your story. So

that's why it's really important to collaborate with an expert on your

copywriting because that expert can come in. You've got all the nuggets of

information in you, you've got it all there. It's just you need someone to

guide you and pull out the good stuff and help you from going down rabbit holes

that aren't fruitful for you. So it's hard for everybody. And the other

challenge around that is that for most of us, if we've been in our industry for

any amount of time, we are at the expert level or we know a lot about what

we're doing. We're good at what we do. And what happens then is you forget what

it's like to not know what, so often website copy can get overly complicated,

or you talk over somebody's head unintentionally because you've what I call the

curse of knowledge. You have the curse of knowledge, which just simply means

you've forgotten what it's like to not know what, and one of the most important

things in storytelling and an effective website is really meeting your clients

where they are. And when you have the curse of knowledge, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (11:06):

You forget the start of the struggle or the start of the

Yeah, you're right. And that's so true when you talk about, it's like being in

a bottle and trying to read the label from the inside. You're so close to it.

But yeah, that's a really good analogy. It's a really good way to think about

it. Okay, well, I feel much better now because A, I know it's not just me that

sometimes struggles with copy and B, now I'm like, oh, I get it. Because it's

one thing to say I've got 10 years experience in simplifying. It's another

thing to say, oh, I remember what it was like 10 years ago when I was first

starting to do it myself and trying to figure out how to do it, because Marissa

back then is very different to Marissa now, and I bet everybody's having the

same issue.

Speaker 3 (11:46):

That's so true.

Speaker 2 (11:47):

Yeah. So when you work with clients, you use a particular

framework. You can tell us more about the framework that you use and how it

works.

Speaker 3 (11:56):

Yeah, yeah. I'm happy to. So I am a certified StoryBrand

guide, and what that means is that I have been mentored by Donald Miller, who

is a brilliant storyteller, and he wrote a book called Building a StoryBrand.

Every business owner should get this book. It is just full of so much good

information. So I got certified under his framework, which is simply called the

StoryBrand Framework. And if you want to boil it down, it comes down to really

two main characters in every story. So every story begins with a hero who has a

problem. And if you think of any movie you've ever seen or any book, there's a

hero who has a problem. And then about 20 minutes into the movie, that hero

meets a guide, who knows how to solve that problem for them. But nobody can

solve the problem for them. The guide has got to solve it, him or herself. But

the guide has a plan to help that hero reach the success that they're hoping to

find or that goal that they're hoping to achieve. And so the guide gives the

hero a plan and shows them what's possible for them by showing them what

success can look like. And it's really that simple. A hero who has a problem

meets an experienced guide who gives them a plan, shows them how to overcome

their problem and guides them to success.

Speaker 2 (13:36):

That's really cool. My brain is going to movies now. I'm

like, oh, that happened in Spider-Man, that happened in Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (13:44):

Happen

Speaker 2 (13:44):

In Bat Batman.

Speaker 3 (13:46):

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's literally a hundred percent of the

movies, or some of the old school movies that I like to bring up are like

Karate Kid and Mr. mgi or Kane and the guy, what's his name from Cheers.

Speaker 2 (14:00):

Hi, Mitch. Yeah, what?

Speaker 3 (14:01):

Right? He Mitch. And he is a brilliant guide because as a

guide, you don't have to be perfect. You're human, you're still flawed. And

Hamit was very flawed, but he had been there, done that. He knew how to win the

Hunger Games, and so he gave her a plan, and then she was able to reach her

goals and find success.

Speaker 2 (14:23):

So in terms of your website then, are we writing your

consumer, your potential client is the hero and you are the guide or you are

the mentor? Is that how it works?

Speaker 3 (14:35):

So the most important thing that anybody can take out of

today's conversation would be that as business owners, we are the guide. We are

Mr. Biagi, we are Yoda, we are Hamit, and our clients are the hero. And so

there is only room for one hero in every story. And one of the biggest mistakes

that I witness online, and I want to say like 99% of the websites out there are

doing this, companies and business owners are making themselves the hero of

their own story. And they're doing this through a lot of I, me and we language.

But again, back to that fundamentals of story, there is only room for one hero

in every story. And so what happens is when a business owner makes themselves

the hero of the story, they've literally kicked their client out of a story.

They've kicked them out instead of inviting them into a narrative with them. So

we really want to show up as the guide, and I'm happy to walk through a few

ways to do that.

Speaker 2 (15:45):

Oh, yeah, that would be very interesting.

Speaker 3 (15:48):

Yeah. So the first thing to do, I mean, remember we're

talking about really keeping the copy on your website focused around your hero.

So what we want to do is always start the communication around the problem that

your hero or your client is facing. So I like to start my website out with

three to five bullets of problems that they're struggling with. So when you

talk to your clients, ask yourself, what are they telling me that they're

struggling with? In their words, what are the themes that keep coming up again

and again and again? So depends on what you do, but you'll be able to easily

jot down three or five and they just need to be really spot on. It's probably

the most important thing you can do because when you really articulate your

client's problems, so many things happen. You open up a story loop and our

brains can't help but engage, and we can't help but want to read on to make

sure that this problem can be resolved. And also, this is really powerful and

it's kind of subconscious. They automatically think, if you can articulate my

problem that well, you must be the best one to solve it. And so this idea of

trust immediately occurs. And then also this feeling of connection, because

when somebody understands the nuances of the things that you're struggling

with, you do feel understood, you feel seen, you feel heard. So that's a really

powerful way to begin the narrative of your storytelling on your website.

Speaker 2 (17:37):

So it's like as soon as people get there, they go, oh,

this person gets where I'm coming from, and they've had it happened before as

well, and they've come through the other end of it. I love that. So you've

relatability and experience together.

Speaker 3 (17:51):

Absolutely. It's not a two for, it's like a five for it

does five different things at one different time. And then the cool thing about

after that section, so we don't want to spend too much time in Debbie Downer

phase. This is not about being Debbie Downer. It's about empathy and really

helping your customer feel seen and heard. But then we follow that section by

really painting a positive picture of what's possible for them. And notice

we're not talking about the features of your service or anything about you.

We're just showing them what are three big things that they're hoping to

accomplish that their life might look like if they engage with you. So

remember, they're scanning your website, how am I going to benefit from this?

So we want to make sure that's pretty early up on the page. And three benefits

might be make more money, lose weight, finally break free of physical pain or

climb that mountain you've always wished to climb. Take time off. I mean, for

your clients that they're trying to simplify their business, it's probably a

lot about time and giving them a lot more free time and letting them have the

freedom to choose what they do with all their white space. So those are two

really, really simple ways that you don't really realize this, but you are

being the guide by just spoon feeding this information to the hero in a way

that really matters to them.

Speaker 2 (19:28):

Yeah, I love that. That makes it just seem so simple,

which of course speaks to me completely with people with getting the copy done.

Then I know a lot of people are like, yeah, sure, I'll give it a try myself.

But sometimes people are like, yeah, this is great. I know the basics, but it's

still going to take me hours. When do you think it's important to bring in a

professional copywriter like you or to DIY it yourself? Do you think there's a

particular time that you know that it's better to bring someone into help you

with it?

Speaker 3 (19:59):

Yeah, I would hesitate to say that there's a specific

right time. Everybody has their own path, and if you're new in business, I

think there's such a benefit to just doing the work yourself for a year or so

and understand what you do. But if you've been at this a few years and you're

feeling really comfortable with your service and you're ready to just have a

website that works for you, in my opinion, I think if you're going to put money

anywhere, put it in your copy because number one, that's the hardest part. But

number two, that's the thing that's going to convert people most effectively.

And then I would say the places to save money, and this is coming from someone

who's been in the industry a long time, and I started out as a designer, so I

believe design is very important, but what's really cool about this day and age

is that it's become so easy to DIY, your own website design with Squarespace

and Wix. And the beautiful thing about Squarespace is it's kind of constrained,

so it stays pretty no matter how much you mess it up, basically,

Speaker 2 (21:18):

It forces you to make it look nice. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (21:20):

And so I think a lot of people end up spending five or

$10,000 on a website design that really, if they had put that money toward the

copywriting or less money even toward the copywriting, saved a couple thousand

dollars and then designed their own website with that clear copywriting plan. I

mean, that to me would feel like the best kind of combination of people that

want to do things on a budget, but make the biggest impact with the things that

they choose.

Speaker 2 (21:54):

That makes a lot of sense to me too, because then you're

investing in something that's actually designed to make you money, so you're

making that investment back. It's not just going into a black hole. It's no,

hang on a minute, this investment's going to set up my website so that it's

easy for people to want to purchase from me later so I don't have to worry

about where am I going to find that money later? It's just going to come back

to me anyway, so yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (22:18):

Right? And the other thing that happens with my clients

all the time is that we map out a very clean copy plan for your website, and

then they'll implement it on their Squarespace or WIC site. And number one, it

typically pays for itself within about a week. But the other really, really

cool thing is that then you end up having this copywriting go-to Bible that you

can for your brand. So anytime you're looking for ideas for copy for social

media or for a podcast interview or your LinkedIn profile bio, you go back to

your website because all that groundwork has been done. Your story has been

crafted so carefully that you never have to reinvent the wheel. You truly, the

beauty talk about the gift of story is really the simplicity of once you've got

it right, you don't have to reinvent the wheel with it. You can the again and

again and again, you can

Speaker 2 (23:22):

Use it everywhere, and it's just going to help cement your

positioning and cement your experience and show people a consistent message

everywhere that actually helps them. Yeah, that's such a good point.

Speaker 3 (23:36):

Yeah. People need to actually read things about eight

times before they're able to commit it to memory. So it's just a big argument,

cohesiveness, consistency, drumming that same drum over and over and over again

until people just have it in their head like, oh, that woman, this is what

she's about, and it just makes it easier for us so we don't have to keep

starting over from scratch.

Speaker 2 (24:04):

Yeah, it's like you get known for the thing that you do.

Yeah. Oh, I love it. Kris, you have just made this so fun and not a lot of

people think copywriting is fun. I love words, but a lot of people are like,

no, I'll do anything but copywriting, and you've just made it a fun, magical

storytelling experience. So I just love that, and I think our listeners are

going to love that too. Thank you so much for sharing all of that with us

today.

Speaker 3 (24:33):

Oh, yeah. I love talking about story. I'm so passionate

about it. So, oh,

Speaker 2 (24:38):

You make it so easy. I've loved listening to you talk

about it. It's like a big hurdle. It's suddenly easy to just overcome like

that. So thank you. I know a lot of our listeners are probably going to want to

find out more. So what's the best way for them to find you? Is your website the

best way? Is there

Speaker 3 (24:57):

Social? Yeah, my website is a great way to find me. It's

red door designs.com, that's red with two Ds, red door designs with an

s@theend.com, and you can find out all about me there. I have an offer around

creating your website copy with you, so it's really in your voice and you don't

send it out to a copywriter to work in a silo. It really needs to be in your

voice, so we do it together that gives you that perspective and make sure it's

done right. So I've got that at grow red door designs.com. And then I have a

free workshop offer at Clarity with Kris, with a K Clarity with Kris with a

k.com.

Speaker 2 (25:49):

Oh, good. All right. I'll make sure I put links in the

show notes too so people can find that really easily and go on over and have a

look more at what you do. Well, everybody, I hope that you've enjoyed this

episode as much as I have, and I really hope that that's got the wheels turning

in your brain and you're thinking, okay, I can tackle copywriting now. I know a

pathway to follow myself to get that done. We would love to hear your insights

on writing your copy as well. So come on over to Instagram. You can find me at

Marissa Roberts official, and we'll see you in the next episode.

Speaker 1 (26:25):

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Simpler Business

Podcast. If you did, please subscribe, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

There's a link in the show notes to make it nice and easy for you, just the way

we like it. If you're ready to simplify and scale your business, you can get

started with my free audio class@marissaroberts.com. See you next time.