Create Compelling Copy That Converts

The Robyn Graham Show, with Robyn Graham and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Introducing the Purpose to Results Academy, which will

launch January 16th, 2023, and classes begin February 2nd. We will kick off the

inaugural Purpose to Results Academy with a free masterclass January 16th at

1:00 PM Eastern Time. The link to register is in the show notes. In addition,

be sure to join our email list so that you don't miss any updates on the

program or any reminders. The purpose to Results Academy is for faith centered

women who want to start and grow a service-based business with simplicity that

impacts and influences the lives of others in a positive way, all without

relying on social media. A few of the details of the program include, reinvent

and transform your career with simplicity while becoming an entrepreneur. Start

transition and grow your business with the help you need to avoid spinning in

circles, spending time, money, energy on resources and tools that won't produce

results.

Speaker 1 (01:06):

Get your idea out into the world and make an impact while

making money. Gain clarity around your God led calling purpose so you can

create a business that makes an impact and leaves a legacy. Create a personal

brand that helps you stand out as the expert you truly are. Become an authority

in your niche. Gain clarity around your soulmate clients. Become more confident

about working with them and convert them to paying clients faster. Develop a

detailed brand marketing strategy so that all of your efforts resonate and

connect with your soulmate clients. Learn SEO tips and strategies for tech

systems and processes to streamline and automate your business without having

to spend a fortune nor endless hours researching on Google. Discover how to

navigate and overcome hidden mindset barriers that can hold you back, like

doubt, anxiety, perfectionism, comparison, money, mindset, procrastination,

fear and imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1 (02:12):

Reach and convert soulmate clients without being chained

to Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or any other social media channel. Make money

faster and create a lifetime of potential by building a solid foundation from

the beginning. Be held accountable for intentional effective action so you can

speed up the process and get results faster. Have a safe place to share

vulnerabilities associated with your journey and ask questions. We're also

going to use scripture to inspire you and help you stay aligned to your fate on

your entrepreneurial journey. This program is going to be so transformative

whether you are just beginning just starting your business or you are well into

six figures, this program is for you because we are going to learn so many

things that will make your business and life so much easier, better, and you

are going to be able to get results, but also get results for your people as

well. I hope you'll join me again. Be sure to register for the masterclass. Be

sure to sign up for our email list. All those links will be in the show notes

because I don't want you to miss any of the details. We'll see you soon.

Speaker 1 (03:35):

Hey friends. Welcome to the Robin Graham show. I'm so

grateful you're joining me for another episode where we dive into

entrepreneurship, faith, mental health, and so much more. I'm your host, Robin

Graham, a brand strategist, business coach and mentor. Join me every week to

learn how mindset, strategy, and action combined we'll produce the results you

were dreaming of. Discover your purpose and follow your God led callings,

values, visions and passions to create a personal brand and strong foundation for

long-term success. The sky is the limit. When we spend time with like-minded

people through interviews and solo episodes, we'll be diving into inspiring

stories, life and business journeys of failure and success, and the strategies

and tools used along the way. Ready to learn. Grab your cup of coffee, the car

keys or the dog's leash, and let's dive in to this episode.

Speaker 1 (04:39):

Hello, beautiful friends, we are back for another episode

of the Robin Graham Show. I am thrilled you're here with me today and I have

another phenomenal guest. Kris Jones is joining me today to talk about writing

compelling copy. Now, a lot of you may be saying to yourself, well, I don't

know how to write. I can't write copy myself. Or you may be saying, well, I

have to write copy because I can't afford to hire a professional copywriter. So

there's a lot of things that go on in the mind when we think about writing. And

sometimes even if we love to write, there is a significant challenge writing

for our business, and we often get stuck in our own heads thinking, well, nobody

cares about my story. My story isn't going to help anybody else. My story

doesn't add value to anybody else's. But here's the thing, and we're going to

dive deeper into this today, is that every experience you have had has led you

to where you are today, and God has called you with a purpose on your heart to

help certain people. So those people are just waiting to hear your story

because that story is going to help them connect with you emotionally. You're

going to resonate with them and they're going to understand that you are the

bomb and you are meant to work with them and solve their problem. So we're

going to dive deep into that today, and I hope that at the end of this, going

to be able to sit down for five minutes and write your story. Alright, without

further ado, Kris Jones, welcome to the Robin Graham Show.

Speaker 2 (06:06):

Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (06:09):

Well, I love what you're doing. I love storytelling, I

love copywriting. I love all these luscious nuggets of entrepreneurship that

you're going to share with us today. So tell the listeners, please a little bit

about you and what brought you to the point in your journey that you're at

today.

Speaker 2 (06:27):

Okay, so my name's Kris, as you already know. I live in

Portland, Oregon, and I run a boutique firm marketing firm called Red Door

Designs. I've been in the industry now 20 years, so I've been at this a really,

really long time, just kind of crazy, and I really started my career out on the

design side of things. So I use design to tell stories visually, and I love

design. I love beautiful, clean, simple design. And as my business developed

and I work with more and more and more clients, I started to recognize the

challenges that my clients were having around copywriting. And so they would

hire me to develop a website for them and we'd pick a project start date, and

I'd say, okay, your copy is due on this day. And they would say, okay, well,

what should I write? And I'm like, just write about yourself.

Speaker 2 (07:34):

You can do it. You've got it. You've got two weeks. And

then sure enough, that date would come and we'd have to move the date back and

move the date back and move the date back because they were struggling so hard

at trying to figure out what to say on their website. And so eventually I just

decided I'm not going to let my clients struggle anymore with this. It can't be

that hard. And I was already doing a lot of writing, but I didn't really have a

strategy that I could teach my clients around how to do it. And so what I did

was I just made it my mission to kind of crack the code on how to write copy in

a clean, easy, simple way that truly connected with their clients and really

helped grow their business. And so in 2017, I connected with Donald Miller, who

is the author of Building a StoryBrand, and I ended up flying out to Nashville

and going through his certification process and really diving deeper into the

fundamentals of storytelling.

Speaker 2 (08:51):

And it was mind blowing. I was just soaking it in and

loving every minute of it. And I came back and I started implementing this

approach with my clients and all the websites that I was building. And it was

shocking what was happening with their businesses, how effective it was. Once

they used real strategy behind the copy on their websites, their businesses

grew so quickly without a lot of effort because their website became their most

powerful marketing tool. And so people would get on the phone with them ready

to engage, ready to hire them because they were already sold by their website.

And so that's kind of how it all unfolded. And now essentially my takeaway from

all of that was beautiful design means very little unless it's paired with very

strategic copy that tells a good story. And so all the work I do is now focused

on how to tell a story, how to create strategic copy for your website that

works.

Speaker 2 (10:10):

And I think my unique special gift is around simplifying

things so they're just so clear and easy and not daunting because believe me,

I've spent years of my life avoiding copywriting and dreading making it. It

feels like homework that you don't want to do, but it's such an essential part

of being your own brand. And so I understand that struggle and I don't want to

go through it personally, and I don't want anybody that I work with or anybody

that I know to have to deal with that kind of headache anymore. So that's why

I've created the work that I do now, which is helping people write copy for

their websites in two and a half hours.

Speaker 1 (11:02):

I love that. So a couple of things you said, and you said

very clearly that the website became the biggest marketing tool. And I love

that so much because I am a total geek when it comes to search engine

optimization. But if you're not writing good copy, you cannot have good search

engine optimization because of the use of keywords, key phrases and the layout,

the readability, and all those other little nuances that go along with it. In

addition to when you talk about having a beautiful website, you also want to

have images. And I think you and I both come from the background of visual

artistry and becoming more visible and telling your story visibly. And I think

that when you have the written word in combination with beautiful imagery that

also connects, you deepen that emotional connection so much further than just

being on the surface and having something pretty.

Speaker 1 (12:03):

But I want to add to that for those people out there

listening, and I've talked a little bit about this more so in my emails and my

blogs than I have on the podcast, but I took a sabbatical from social media

because I wanted to do a test. It was draining me. And I wanted to do a test to

see, okay, what happens if I go off of social media? What happens with my

business? And because I've built a decent website, I'm not going to say, great,

I am sure it could use some improvement, but I'm pretty proud of it. But

because I've worked with a designer and done all of these things, my website is

pretty resourceful. It works for me versus working against me or not helping

me. And so at the end of the day, when you have a tool like that, you don't

have to spend hours and hours and hours and hours on social media trying to

convert people to become your client there. So I just wanted to add that in the

website is indeed your should be your best friend and your business. So I kind

of rambled a little bit, but let's talk a little bit about the process, I

guess. And I know you have a five minute kind of guide where people can learn

how to write good copy in five minutes. Can we break that down for the

listeners?

Speaker 2 (13:24):

Absolutely. Yeah. So first off, I want to just start by

saying writing for yourself is really hard. And it's not just that it's hard,

it's legitimately it can feel impossible. So I just want to let your listeners

off the hook around the challenge of writing for yourself. The reality is when

you are trying to write for yourself, it's a lot like you are sitting inside of

a bottle trying to read the label of the bottle. That can only be read from the

outside. And this is why we need coaches. This is why we need to ask for

support. And it doesn't have to be even paid support. You could ask your

neighbor or someone who's an ideal client for you to give you feedback, but I

just want you to remember that there's a reason why it's so hard. And the other

thing that happens a lot is we're in our industry for a certain amount of time

and we're so close to it that we've forgotten what it's like to not know what

we know.

Speaker 2 (14:32):

I call this the curse of knowledge. And so we either talk

over our potential clients' heads or we simplify it down to something that

doesn't engage them. So there are two things that those are the two struggles

that I see most. And what I do around storytelling is really break down every

story and the components of it in three different steps. So every story you've

ever heard, every movie you've ever watched, every book you've ever read begins

with a hero who has a problem that they don't know how to solve. And then a

little bit later, that hero meets a guide who has a solution. And so that

happens, and guess what? You are the guide. You are not the hero of your own

story. You are the guide and your customer or your clients are the hero. And

then that guide gives them a plan, and that plan guides them to experience

success.

Speaker 2 (15:45):

So that is really, it's that simple. A hero has a problem

they can't solve, number one. Number two, they meet a guide with a solution.

And number three, that hero finds success because they've met the guide and the

guide showed them the path to success. The way we break this down around

telling your story, and this is truly like it's less about telling your story,

and it's more about inviting your potential clients into a narrative with you

where they can envision themselves with you in the story and they play the hero

character. You're the guide character, and you're in this story narrative

together. And that's the key to making copy compelling A lot of people, I would

say 99% of the websites on the internet today, the company or the brand makes

themselves the hero of the story that they're telling. And there's only room

for one hero in every story.

Speaker 2 (16:53):

So you essentially kick your potential lead out of a story

with you. They don't connect with you. They don't want to keep reading because

you're already the hero of this story. And so there's no way for them to really

get pulled into the story with you. So I think if you take nothing else away

from today, it's really that you're the guide and your clients or your

potential customers are the hero of your story. And the way we break this down

is to always start your story with the problem that your customers have. So we

always want to say, when someone asks, what do you do, you would answer the

question starting with the problem that your customers have. So if I were a

parenting coach, I might say, many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there

aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. Now notice I've just shared

a problem that my ideal clients struggle with. Or if I were a retirement

planner, I might say, many people over 50 worry that their money won't last

them through retirement. And notice how you're like, you're getting pulled in.

You want to know, okay, and is this problem going to get solved? Tell me more.

Speaker 2 (18:24):

I'll give you one more example. So for an eye surgeon, if

I were an eye surgeon, I might say, after age 40, many people struggle with

eyelids that inhibit their vision and make them look older than they are. And

so these are ways that you can begin your story, and those are some examples of

how to start your story with a problem. So first, you identify the people

you're working with, so many people over 40 or many toddler moms, and then you

follow it with the problem that they have. And then after that, we introduce

the guide that has the solution, and that's you. So you might follow it. Let's

get back to the toddler mom example here. So I'll repeat it. The problem, many

toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to

get it all done. I help them change their relationship with time.

Speaker 2 (19:21):

And notice I have just stepped in as the guide right there

with a plan, with a solution. I help them change their relationship with time.

Or I'll give you an example again with the retirement planner. My proven method

takes the guesswork out of retirement planning. Notice I'm not telling you how

I'm solving the problem, I'm just telling you that this is the problem that I

solve. And you don't have to get into the detail of it. For the eye surgeon, it

might be I'm a surgeon who specializes in eyelid restoration. So like, oh, the

guide is a surgeon who restores eyelids. Cool, so tell me more. Right? And then

as the guide, one of our biggest jobs is to show them what success looks like

so they know what's possible for them. And so we end this story showing that

the hero is experiencing really incredible success. And that example, again,

I'll just continue with the parenting coach one, I helped them change their

relationship with time. So that's the solution. So they can parent with more

joy, peace, and connection. And for the retirement planner, my proven method

takes the guesswork out of retirement planning so they can spend with

confidence knowing they'll thrive.

Speaker 2 (20:55):

And then for the eyelid example, it might be I'm a surgeon

who specializes in eyelid restoration. So that's the solution. So you can look,

see, clearly, look more youthful and feel your best. So notice this is really a

full and complete story. It's the shortest story you've ever heard, but it

contains all the components of what make stories compelling. You've got the

hero with the problem, they meet a guide with the solution, and then they find

success. And this approach and process can really work like an accordion. So

right now, our accordion's very shrunken down and condensed. That's why we're

telling a very, very short story. But depending on what you're writing for,

whether it's a blog or your website or really literally anything else for your

business, you can expand this accordion out to be much wider. So you can dive

deeper into the problem. You might want to add a few sentences after that that

really describes the problem and goes deeper into it. You might want to go a

little deeper into your solution, and you might really want to paint a longer

and more extensive picture of what success looks like. So no matter what, it

works for everything, and you get to choose how short or long you want to make

it depending on the environment that it lives.

Speaker 1 (22:29):

Okay, I love this, and I've read Donald Miller's book, so

the StoryBrand book. So I'm familiar with all of these terms, and it is reverse

psychology when you think of it this way, because we want to be the hero

always. But what we really want to do is allow our soulmate clients to be the

heroes of their own journey. And the more we can make them feel that way, the

more we're going to build their confidence in what we're doing for them. So I

do and appreciate his model and how he teaches. And listeners, I will put the

link to his book in the show notes so you can reference that and read that for

yourself if you're interested. So my question for you is, we now know how to

write this story that is going to help our audience understand how they can

become the hero by us guiding them. Does this go on? My question to you is,

does this mini version of the story go on the homepage and then we extrapolate

it out on another page? Or how do you suggest we place this beautiful story?

Speaker 2 (23:33):

So once you've got this story, essentially what you want

to do is repeat it as much as you can. So you want to put it your social media

profiles. You want to put it in your email signature. You want to put maybe a

shortened version on the back of your business card. You can put it on your

LinkedIn banner. So you can pull from this, you can do the whole thing

together, or you can pull from it little bits here and there. Often what I'll

do is I'll pull something out for the header of your website of this. So you've

got all the nuggets in here that you need. And sometimes I'll put it all

together on the website, or sometimes I'll pull something out for just that

header area. We take the guesswork out of retirement planning, so you can spend

with confidence, even a bite-sized version of that story, just so when people

land on your website, all they really care about is themselves. It's just how

we're wired as humans. They want to know what you do and how it's going to

benefit them. So this story really is hero centric because they're trying to

figure out how you're going to make their lives better, and we want to make it

very easy for them to understand that you're going to do that for them.

Speaker 1 (25:09):

Okay, so the story though, do you recommend having the

story on the homepage and obviously breakout for headers and things like that,

components of the story, but then on the service page as well, do you

extrapolate out more of that story on the service page? No. Or what about page

when you're telling about yourself, how do you incorporate the story into that

without sounding so, oh, I am so awesome, I do all this. Right,

Speaker 2 (25:36):

Right, right, right, right. You use the same formula for

different areas. So for example, I had a client that was giving three

different, she had three different offerings in her services section, and they

were three different types of workshops. And so she went through this

storytelling process for each of those and created, each workshop had its own

story or mini story. So you would do it specifically if your workshop were, any

workshop would be solving a specific problem. So you would just hone into that

and regenerate the copy for each of those workshops. And then on the about

page, you can do a similar approach. I mean it really on your website. The

beautiful thing is you don't have to talk about yourself a lot. People want to

know that you're qualified. They want to know that you've got authority. When

you're the guide, you really do show up with empathy and authority. It's a lot

about helping them understand, helping them know you understand the struggle

that they're going through and that you can help them through that. So the

about page is a little bit of a different process than this, but I mean, it's

different. It's a little bit more complicated than the 1, 2, 3 approach that

I'm sharing here.

Speaker 1 (27:10):

So when you talk about writing copy for the about page,

how much do we tell

Speaker 2 (27:20):

About yourself?

Speaker 1 (27:21):

Yeah, because we said this in the intro that it is so hard

for people to write about themselves and tell their story, and we don't want to

write from when I was two years old, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We don't

want to tell our whole life story, but we need to pull out those integral parts

that are going to connect with our audience and help them understand how we

understand their problem.

Speaker 2 (27:46):

I mean, that's really what they care about. So when you

are writing your own story, it's really not all that much about you. If you

went to my website, I don't go into a whole narrative of my history because

people don't really care. Number one, they're scanning the website, so they're

not even fully reading a website. They're scanning it really quickly. And so I

like to use really short bits of copy that don't require people to put out a

lot of effort to read the copy. And so even the copy about you is fundamentally

about your hero, and you really want to, it's not like you can't talk about

yourself, but you really want to frame everything around the problem that your

clients are having and how you can solve that. So even my about section is we

get a little bit more into the aspirational identity of what my customers want

to be and why that's hard and how my solution, I break down my solution a

little bit deeper. I do 1, 2, 3 steps. Here's how I solve this problem, step

one, step two, step three. So it really is, I mean, it's really all about your

hero. And the main thing you want to communicate is that you understand you

have compassion. You know how hard it is and that you have authority in this

field. So it's one of the most important sections on the website is

highlighting your experience. And that might be 18 years in the industry, 350

clients, happy clients, or 18 certifications you don't need.

Speaker 1 (29:52):

You know what I mean? You don't need, right,

Speaker 2 (29:55):

Even one. But the more you even that needs to be done

strategically because if you start overly trying to impress, then you become

the hero again. So we really want to remind ourselves, nobody caress all that

much about us. They just want to know, can we solve their problem and are we

qualified and do we understand them? Do they feel a connection with us? And the

way we create that connection is through storytelling. It's through talking

about them, it's talking about their problem, talking about the way we

articulate their problem, and the more clearly we articulate the problem

immediately, they believe we are the best one to solve it. It's like a weird

psychology thing that happens so much on a website, happens instantly,

especially with storytelling and especially with photography. So if you're

pairing photography that tells the story and shows you working with a potential

client and helping that, part of that is showing you as the guide and the

connection that you have with your clients. And so now they're able to envision

themselves in that narrative with you. That's the power of photography when

it's paired with storytelling. It's like this superpower and when it's done

right, by the time they get to the bottom of your homepage, they're ready to

book a call with you and they want to work with you and they're excited about

it. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (31:45):

You're speaking my language when you talk about

photography and copy. Okay, so Kris, this has been fabulous. I expect all of

the listeners to start writing copy today. Take your five minutes and just

write out your story, guys, because I think there is so much power to this. And

you could even start by developing something for your homepage, but practice

this using practice using this for your email marketing strategies as well,

because there's a lot of power to that. And if you're on social media, use it

for your social media posts too, because I think you'll connect with people

more openly and readily. Kris, how can the listeners learn more from you,

connect with you, hang out with you?

Speaker 2 (32:28):

Yeah. If you are fed up with writing your own copy and you

just want to do it, get it done in two and a half hours flat, then I have an

offer where that's what I do. We write your website copy and it takes two and a

half hours and we're done, and you check it off the list forever. If you are

wanting to DIY things and dive deeper into the strategy of storytelling and

learn the tools of how to do this every time you're writing for your own

business, then you can go to clarity with Kris.com. That's Clarity with Kris

with a k.com, and you can sign up for my freebie there. And otherwise, go to

red door designs.com and you can get everything there and sign up for the 2.5

hour copywriting program.

Speaker 1 (33:23):

Awesome. You guys, I will put all of those links in the

show notes so you can access them easily. I encourage you to visit the show

notes because I'll have a recap of everything that Kris said, and you'll be

able to take away more details than probably you were able to capture unless

you were sitting there frantically taking notes. So if anybody has any

questions about that, anything we talked about today, feel free to email me at

info@therobingraham.com. And if you know anyone who is struggling with writing

their copy, direct them to Kris first. Direct them to this episode, share it,

leave a rating and review if you found it helpful, and we will see you all next

week.

Speaker 1 (34:07):

And that's a wrap. Friends, if you enjoyed this episode

and found the information helpful, please take a moment to subscribe and leave

a rating and review. That would mean the world to me. If you know someone who

could use the information shared today, please share the episode with them too.

And let's connect. You can find me on Instagram Clubhouse, Facebook and

LinkedIn as the Robin Graham. Lastly, if you'd like more information on

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with tips and trainings to help you build a solid foundation for brand and

business success. And don't forget, on the website, you can find a plethora of

free resources. Go to the robin graham.com/resources and download any of the

free resources that I have created to help you build a personal brand that

stands out and makes an impact. Until next time, remember to smile.