The Hero's Journey to a Successful Photography Website

The Photo Business Help Podcast, with Natalie Jennings and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:00):

Just a quick reminder, if you've been trying links that

I've mentioned on any of these recent episodes of the show and they don't work,

technology changes and some of the things we offer change. So what we've

decided to do is put everything that's current over@photobizhelp.com slash

links, and anything that isn't current probably won't work. So if you're having

trouble with a link that doesn't work, that's probably why. Head on over to

photo biz help.com/links or if you're following along at Photo Biz help on

Instagram. It's the link in the bio.

Speaker 2 (00:30):

So we articulate their problems so they feel seen, they

feel heard, they resonate with you, and they automatically think that you're

the best one to solve this problem because you simply articulated it. Then that

hero meets a guide with a solution. This is where you enter in.

Speaker 1 (00:54):

This is the Photo Business Help podcast, a resource for

photographers of all levels, from brand new to Burnt Out, who believe that

business growth starts with personal growth. I'm your host, Natalie Jennings. I

created Jennings photo back in 2010 and have been happily full-time since, but

not without some mistakes along the way. Those lessons plus what's really

helped me thrive financially and personally are what I want to share with you

so you can grow with your photo business too. You'll also hear stories from

other photographers and industry folks as well as my favorite ways to be more

mindful and happier on this journey. This episode has so much juicy information

in it, especially if you're feeling like, gosh, I'm putting myself out there. I

have a website, I have social media, and no one's really biting. Or maybe you

get a few bites, but you're constantly finding that you have to sort of explain

yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:54):

People are asking you, do you do this, do you do that? Or,

how come you do it this way? Or you're answering the same questions over and

over. Today I'm talking with Kris of Red Door Designs and we're going to go

deep into how story, which is like our ancient human way of communicating is by

and large the best way to sell and the best way to communicate in general. So

we're going to break it down for you, the Hero's Journey 1.0 because we don't

have time to get super deep into it, but she is going to give you a bunch of

tips. Literally walking away from this episode. You can look at your website

and know exactly what might be missing and what you are doing, right? So it's really

good to know these things and Kris is awesome at this work. So grab a notebook

if that's your thing.

Speaker 1 (02:40):

Maybe just scan through your own website if you haven't

looked at it in a while, and we'll dive into this interview right after these

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Speaker 1 (03:31):

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Speaker 1 (04:24):

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Biz help. Well, thank you so much, Kris, for being here, and I haven't asked

you yet, even though we've been chatting for a few minutes before the record

button. Where are you in the world?

Speaker 2 (06:26):

I am in Portland, Oregon.

Speaker 1 (06:28):

Oh, nice. You have a very fuzzy, cute, warm hat on, and I

was like, maybe you're not in Florida.

Speaker 2 (06:36):

No, I took a really long walk this morning along the river

and it was really cold. The grass was frozen, so yeah, I've got my hat on

today.

Speaker 1 (06:47):

Well, you're talking with the Minnesotans, so it's like

eight degrees outside today, so I get the cold a thousand percent. There's no

grass,

Speaker 2 (06:58):

It's that cold.

Speaker 1 (07:00):

There's just piles and piles and piles of snow. It's nice

though. It's a nice change. It gets really green and verdant here in the

summer, so it's like a weird switch. Anyway, we are going to talk a little bit

today about copy and using words to attract your clients, and I think what drew

me to this conversation, and I've covered this before on the podcast, but I

love getting different perspectives and I also just reiterating it because I

think as photographers we're really lucky that we have powerful imagery that

can immediately turn people on or off, but I think that I know that a lot of

the questions that I get from my students and from the audience have to do with

almost always communication. It kind of comes down to words and as visual

artists, I'm sure it's not the first thing we're thinking about. So I know this

is your area of expertise, and I thought maybe I'd just hand it off to you,

maybe say a little bit about what you do and then we can talk about how to give

some photographers a few tips.

Speaker 2 (08:06):

Sure, absolutely. So my name is Kris, as you know. I'm in

Portland, Oregon. I've been in the industry in the marketing industry now 20

years more than that a little bit. And yeah, I am really passionate about

telling a beautiful story and story as important as the visuals are the words

that you use, and when you put the visuals combined with the words together,

magic happens. So I started out in the industry as a designer, and so visuals

were really my first language. And what I found over the years is that my

clients that I would work with to design websites, I would rely on them to

write their own copy for their website. And time and time and time and time and

time again, they would come to me and just be like, I don't know what to say.

How do I do this?

Speaker 2 (09:05):

And the deadlines would move back or the start dates would

move back. And I just watched so many people struggle and I personally

struggled with writing my own copy. So I just decided enough is enough. I'm

going to crack the code on this. Maybe it's not as hard as it seems. And I came

across a framework called the StoryBrand Framework. A lot of people are

familiar with the framework. A lot of people have read the book. It's called

Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. He is a brilliant storyteller and he essentially

simplified the components of story and are there are really seven key

components to story. And then after really getting to know the framework and

using it for many years, I've simplified it even further. So really it comes

down to every story, every movie you've ever watched, any story you've ever

heard, somebody tell if it's a good story, if it's a compelling story, it

always begins with a hero who has a problem that they can't solve.

Speaker 2 (10:21):

And that hero then eventually meets a guide that has a

solution. And through that relationship, the hero finds success, and that is

the mystery behind every story you've ever heard. So when you can apply that

framework and that's simple, it's three different things. When you can apply

that to marketing, all of a sudden you're telling a story that people can

really connect with, resonate with, that draws people in and makes them want to

work with you because they resonate with you. And when I talk about telling a

story, I'm not really talking about once Upon a time or the history of my

background is it's really about inviting your potential clients into a

narrative with you where they're the hero and you are the guide. And that's

really like if you take away nothing else, just the idea that you are the guide

and your customers or your clients are the hero, it will change the way you

talk about your business.

Speaker 1 (11:33):

Yeah. Well that Donald Miller book is certainly a popular

one, and we'll put link to it in the show notes for sure. I want to dig into

that and give maybe an example or two for photographers of just what that might

look like. But I also want to highlight, I was just thinking about how you

said, I've been doing this 20 years and obviously marketing business has

changed. I mean, it's almost unrecognizable almost year to year. It changes so

fast. And I thought I'd maybe just quickly ask you before we dig into the other

stuff, how important is copy and story in that timeline? Has it pretty much

stayed at the very top of the stack or have other things kind of come in and

changed that?

Speaker 2 (12:16):

Well, the beautiful thing about storytelling is that it

hasn't changed in thousands of years. The only difference is now we know that

we can use story in our marketing for it to be much more effective. But as far

as what's changed over the 20 years, definitely everything early days, like

gosh, 20 years ago creating a website or even 15 years ago creating a website,

if you had beautiful photography and really clean design, you were golden. Your

business would do great. Totally, and that's all you needed. And now that's

just not really that hard to get between all the stock photos out there and all

the pre-done templates and Squarespace and all of that. And I think it's a good

thing because everybody has access to be able to build websites without

spending thousands of dollars. So big picture, it's a wonderful thing, but it's

really leveled the playing field. So in order to stand out, you really need to

tell a story, and that's really the one thing that requires a high level of

strategy and energy.

Speaker 1 (13:32):

Absolutely. So the hero in our story as photographers, our

clients need good photos. I guess that would probably be the main problem that

they're trying to solve. But I'm also quite certain, at least in my audience,

that they also want it to be relatively painless and easy, and if they have

little kiddos quick. And there's a few other points to kind of hit on that.

I'm, again speaking just from lifestyle photography and we're the guide. So

maybe would it be cool to pick it up from there and just talk around that? Give

a couple examples to photographers around how that works.

Speaker 2 (14:11):

So every story begins with a hero that has a problem. So

think about your clientele and it really would change depending on if you're

doing wedding photography, what are their struggles, what are their problems

versus a family portrait photography, those clients are going to struggle with

different things. So if it were a family portrait photography, it might be

they're unable to ever get their family all together in one group because take

the photo in the family or usually the mom taking the photos so she not in any

of photos, photos that they might be struggling with the fact that they've got

too much going on and they don't have time to capture these important moments

of life. That might mean that their house is, their family's very vibrant and

loving, but there are no visuals on their walls that really show that sure,

they want their house to feel like a home. I mean, there's probably dozens and

dozens. What are some that come to mind for you?

Speaker 1 (15:22):

You kind of nailed some of them. And then I was thinking

about wedding photographers. Actually, we have a lot of those listening and

this idea of I want to feel comfortable, confident, I want to know that I don't

have to worry about it, that this photographer isn't going to be late or mess

up or be rude or too much, or there's all these things because you're really

sharing a space with someone in a really intimate way. Photographers are often

the only ones allowed in certain situations besides the couple or whatever's

going on. So I think there's a lot of stress around that if they pick the wrong

person, so many things can essentially go wrong. And if they pick the right

person and if they feel confident that they're the right person, whether that's

because you're sharing reviews or because you're really a great person to

person when you do your first meeting with the couple, all of those things play

into it. And I think I'm bringing this up only because I think photographers

are really just thinking about like, oh my gosh, I'm shooting at that church. I

can't wait to put them by that window. So often just thinking about the visual

and the product that all of these other things that apply to the hero's problem

are not actually to do with photography. I mean, obviously a portion of it are,

but some of it is just totally different stuff.

Speaker 2 (16:43):

Totally. Yeah, exactly. Everybody thinks that we make

decisions based on facts. Like, okay, I am having a wedding, I need it to be

photographed, and so check the box. I need a photographer. But we really make

our decisions based on emotions. So if you can put people's emotions at ease

through what you say on your website and help them understand you've got this,

you're the guide, you've done this a million times before, you know how to

capture those moments. You know how to put people at ease. You know how to be

an invisible force that's going to capture these moments and eliminate the

stress for the bride. So all those things are problems that you can help them

understand that you recognize. And what's interesting, when we are really clear

and we really articulate their struggles or their problems, the things that are

keeping them up at night, when we articulate that, the better we articulate it,

the more quickly they're going to immediately think we're the ones that can

solve it

Speaker 1 (17:51):

A thousand percent. And this is that piece with

photographers where if you're listening, what are all of the things that you do

really well? Maybe you're super punctual, you have an easy signup, bookings

system. All of these things like you are really fast with little kids, you're

great with dogs. I don't know. Say all of those things, say them all the time

because those are the things like you just said, that I think photographers

forget to talk about. I mean, they just really just talk about the product and

I can't stress enough how much it helps to talk about all that other stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:25):

Yes. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, you want to talk about

all that other stuff as it relates to your client. You definitely want to show

the benefits of working with you. Of course, you really want to show how are

they going to succeed because of this? How are they, what's their life going to

be like after this? Because they've hired you, they're going to have these

incredible albums forever. They're going to have these moments that are

embedded into their memories because you've captured those. So we really want

to make sure we speak to all the happy end result that all of this is going to

provide for them.

Speaker 1 (19:05):

And that's where the story comes in, right?

Speaker 2 (19:07):

It is. So we've got the hero that has a problem. So we

articulate their problems so they feel seen, they feel heard, they resonate

with you, and they automatically think that you're the best one to solve this

problem because you simply articulated it. And then that hero meets a guide

with a solution, and this is where you enter into the story. Notice, you don't

talk about yourself at the beginning of the story, you talk about the hero, and

then about halfway through your page, that's when you've really earned their

trust and earn the right to introduce yourself as the guide. And the idea is

really to position your services as the solution to their problem. I'm going to

repeat that. So we want to position your services as a solution to their

problem, and when we do that, we become the guide. We do that through empathy.

Speaker 2 (20:02):

We do it through authority and positioning our services in

that way, and empathy, a guide has been there, done that and understands the

frustration or the fear or the struggle that their heroes going through. And so

you just kind of empathize like, Hey, I get this. This is hard. This is a big

decision. There's a lot writing on this decision, and it feels like a lot. The

last thing you want is more stress on your big day. So through that empathy and

through authority, people just want to know that you know what you're doing

basically. And authority can come through in a few different ways. It's really

pretty easy to do. You could say 125 number of weddings shot or 12 years in the

business or some kind of certification that you might have,

Speaker 1 (20:57):

Awards, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:59):

Testimonials can be a great way to do that. Build

authority too. So that's part two. We've got a hero with a problem. They meet a

guide with this solution, and then that hero finds success and it's your job as

the guide to show them what success looks like.

Speaker 1 (21:17):

Can I pause you for a quick second before we go into that,

what success looks like? Yes. You had mentioned to not at first, just jump in

with your solution as the guide. Yes. What could that kind of look like, that

time period? Is it like a series of emails or, I mean, how does that look to

someone who just comes into a business as someone that needs, we'll just say a

wedding photographer. How long is that journey until you step in and go, I know

what you need, or what does that kind of look like? Does that make sense what

I'm asking?

Speaker 2 (21:49):

It totally makes sense. And if you want to go to my

website, red door designs.com, you can see that all of this in action, but it

happens. That all happens on your webpage, but it happens in a specific order.

A lot of self-employed people, we talk about ourselves right off the bat at the

beginning before we've really established resonance with the person who's

coming to our website. So part of how we establish that resonance is letting

them know that we understand where they're at, we care about their problem, we

care about solving that problem for them, and we show them what success looks

like. So what that means on your website, and this is true for pretty much all

your social media posts, even your social media profiles, your email signature,

you can put these messages in there and I'll kind of talk you through what that

looks like if we have time.

Speaker 2 (22:46):

But essentially on the homepage of your website, you want

to start with the problem. You want to communicate maybe five bullets that

they're struggling with, and then you want to follow that by painting a picture

of what's possible. Our brains are just constantly scanning our environment to

figure out how we're going to thrive, how we're going to survive. And so we

want to just spoonfeed that up to them right off the bat, and this is not

features yet. We just want to show them how are they going to thrive? And that

might be like I mentioned before, after the fact, after they've worked with

you, how's their life going to be better for it? So you want to do that right

off the bat, and then you want to introduce yourself as the hero through

empathy and authority.

Speaker 1 (23:35):

Perfect. That's very helpful. Let's jump back into the

success

Speaker 2 (23:41):

Correction, then. You introduce yourself as the guide, not

hero. Not the hero.

Speaker 1 (23:46):

You're right. I didn't even catch that either. And now I'm

like, oh

Speaker 2 (23:48):

Yeah,

Speaker 1 (23:49):

Yep. We're the guides, the business owners.

Speaker 2 (23:52):

You are the Yoda, you're the Yoda to Luke Skywalker.

Speaker 1 (23:56):

So folks are in that place. And then I kind of cut you off

for that question, but now we want to show them what success looks like. Is

that what you said for sort of number three?

Speaker 2 (24:04):

Yeah. So think of three ways that their life will be

better because they've worked with you, and that might just be for wedding

photographer. I mean, you can probably come up with a ton of these ideas, but

examples might be able to have a photos that you one day show your kids and

capture your special day and even moments that you weren't even aware of that

happened. There's all kinds of beautiful things that happen because of the work

that you do. What ideas do you have?

Speaker 1 (24:40):

Well, I always go to easing that stress, like being a fly

on the wall, making sure that everything's captured, you don't have to worry

about it, that you'll have a beautiful story, punctuality, communication, just

all of that stuff really eases people's minds and letting them know that they

can just stop worrying about it. I think particularly for weddings, if you can

take worry off their list, like, oh, photographer's all good off the list. If

you can do that as soon as possible with like you said, with authority and all

of those things, and that's another podcast, but that's what a great sales call

will do, is just when you can take that off their plate before they've even

booked with you where they're like, oh, we just need this person. We don't want

to think about this anymore. I think that's a really big one.

Speaker 2 (25:27):

You bring up a really good point with the sales call. So

the idea is that your website is your sales call, so if you've done your

homework and you've done your work and you're telling a really powerful story

on your website, then by the time they get on the call with you, they're

already sold on you. They just want to essentially talk through a couple

details and book it. And so I found with my clients, just the amount of time

saved and effort of sales calls is really eliminated, which is such a gift,

Speaker 1 (26:03):

And you can really tell when you're doing something. I

have a private coaching program called The Greenhouse, and that sales page is

almost exactly like what we've been talking about, but it's quite detailed.

There's testimonials, there's the problems right up front. There's all that

kind of stuff, and the folks that I've worked with in that container have all

jumped on the sales call and just been ready. They just had a few questions,

and I think you can tell because I mean, when I reflect on that first iteration

of that program three years ago, I was not doing a good job communicating that.

So there were people saying no, and there were people that had a lot of

questions, and anytime I tell Audrey and I, who's my co-host, we talk about

this a lot, but anytime clients are coming to you with lots of questions or if

you find yourself being like, why do people keep asking how to check out of

their cart? Or whatever the thing is, we all have these things that pop up that

are redundant. It's almost always because you're not explaining it super well

and just remembering that you are the one in your business all day long every

day, and so it might be completely obvious to you, but it's not obvious to a

new person almost ever.

Speaker 2 (27:13):

Yeah. That's called the curse of knowledge, and it's

really common for anyone who's an expert in their field, we forget what it's

like to not know what we know, and so we end up speaking to other people or

potential clients as if they get it, and with language that goes over their

head. That's right. That's a really common thing, and it can be eliminated just

by paying attention to those questions you're talking about or putting it in

front of a friend's eyes and saying, okay, if you didn't know me, what would be

your takeaway from this page?

Speaker 1 (27:48):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's exactly in my program, I

have the Baby Boomer test, which I lovingly call because my folks are of that

generation, and I'll just say, can you just look at this and figure out how to

get from A to B? And if they can't, then it's probably needs to be simplified

because it's just a really good metric for the average person that isn't

constantly in a techie space.

Speaker 2 (28:11):

Right, true.

Speaker 1 (28:12):

Just one example, but I totally agree with that. Before we

jump off, and I think this is an amazing thing to think about already. I know

people listening are like, oh gosh, I don't have any of that on my site. But

let's maybe just reiterate, if I were to go to so-and-so's website and they're

a wedding photographer, what should they have as far as just one more time kind

of what should we see as a client that is, or the hero that has major anxiety

about wanting to find a competent, talented wedding photographer?

Speaker 2 (28:45):

So what do you want to see on their website

Speaker 1 (28:49):

Right away is what are we looking for?

Speaker 2 (28:51):

What you want to do upfront in that upper hero section is

you just want to clearly articulate what you do. I'm a photographer who

photographs weddings. It's that you could probably make it a little bit more

interesting, but it should be so stupid simple. It shouldn't have to burn any

brain calories to figure out what you do and who you do it for.

Speaker 1 (29:16):

Yeah, and I was going to say, your Instagram is like that,

your bio, how would you tell someone what you do if you were just talking to

your friend, oh, I do blah, blah, blah, blah, so that blah, blah, blah, blah.

It can be that easy, rather than it being really kind of esoteric and trying to

figure out what's going on. For example, photo Business Help was named Photo

Business Help because I was like, well, it is. I was like, maybe we could call

it clicking with, I mean, I went through and there's a lot of great photo

businesses. I don't want to offend anybody that have really funky names and

that's cool, but for me, I was just, this is what it is, so I'm just going to

do that. Yes.

Speaker 2 (29:58):

And you just saved yourself probably a year of your life

not having to explain what it is because the name spells it out there for

people. So you've really got five seconds in that upper area to communicate

what you do and who you do it for. And if you can't clearly communicate that a

lot of people will leave the website, this is going to be too much work.

Everyone's kind of overwhelmed with information anyway, so you just want to

keep it stupid, simple, clear over, clever every day,

Speaker 1 (30:32):

Clear over clever. That's the best. Everyone wants to be

clever, but

Speaker 2 (30:38):

Really no, no. I know. I like to be clever too, but clear

wins every time. And then you want to follow that up with a few bullets about

you might say, are you struggling with? And then three bullets that are really

the words that your clients tell you in their language, what are they

struggling with? They're stressed out about their big day, so many details, all

the things. So you want to do three to five bullets of that problem, and then

you want to paint a picture of what success looks like for them. What is that

day? They're going to fully engage in your special day because you won't have

to worry about a thing. What is their life really going to look like because

they've hired you? And then you want to introduce yourself as the guide and

position your services as the solution to that problem.

Speaker 1 (31:36):

Beautiful. It's so funny though because it's simple yet,

and especially with photographers, a lot of this gets overlooked, and fair

enough, if you are a talented photographer or even competent, your images can

sell someone. I mean, if they're just like, I like that, that's what I want.

But it's a very, very saturated industry, so to be able to just be clear and

not clever, be able to communicate your value, all of that kind of stuff is

super helpful.

Speaker 2 (32:03):

It is simple, it truly is. But there is a thing called the

bottle effect, which is it just means that when we're too close to our own

business, it's like trying to read the label of the bottle from inside the

bottle. The label cannot be read, and this is true for every business owner.

When we are the business, we are just so close to it. We can't get the

perspective we need, and I work with people who are authors who are writers as

a profession, but they're again, struggling with this. It's not about if you're

a good writer or not. The challenge is because you're just so close to your own

self and your own business that it's really hard to write about it, which is

why I do the work that I do. It's just to create that perspective, that fresh

eyes on you and your business and the perspective that is really critical to

tell a compelling story.

Speaker 1 (33:02):

In college, I had a creative writing minor and was really

interested in all sorts of books on writing and stuff, and Stephen King, his on

writing book, which is amazing, even if you're not a writer, he always talks

about killing your darlings when you have this loving relationship with your

favorite things you've come up with, and then someone else looks at it and

they're like, I don't get it. You have kind of an entire narrative and

experience in your own head kind of attached to this thing that no one else can

see. So anything that you do creatively, if you can walk away from it and come

back to it, I think same with your business. Maybe just don't look at your

website for a month and then come back to it and be like, oh, that is not

making any sense.

Speaker 2 (33:51):

Right? Mean, and the other thing to keep in mind, I think

what you mentioned earlier was just put it in front of somebody who has no idea

who you are or what you do. Go to a coffee shop and be like, can I buy you a

coffee? If you look at my website, you can get really valuable information that

way. The other thing that I like people to know, because I think it lets people

off the hook with the pressure to write is that people actually don't read

websites anymore. They scan them. When you have a long paragraph of copy, it

will not get read. People do not read websites anymore. They scan 'em. So you

want to make sure your headlines are doing the heavy lifting for you. You want

to make sure they're intentional, not about me. You want to really have those

headlines be working for you, and then instead of long paragraph of copy, you

want maybe one or two or three sentences at the most.

Speaker 1 (34:47):

Beautiful. Well, I think that gives people a lot to think

about, and Donald Miller's book is highly recommended, so check that out too.

But you've really covered the basics. It's like, that's it everyone, but we

still need you because sometimes it's just too difficult to do it on our own.

So if you're feeling really stuck and you're listening with all this stuff,

obviously check out all of Kris's stuff too, because we have that on the show

notes, in the show notes. I dunno what I'm talking about. Where can people find

you? Where's your best favorite place for people to find you? If

Speaker 2 (35:20):

You want to work with me or you want to take advantage of

my free offerings, you can go to red door designs.com. That's red,

R-E-D-D-O-O-R designs, plural, D-E-S-I-G-N s.com, and you can find everything

there. You can also check out my main offering, which is copy that sells

website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so if you're ready to check off

website, copy off your list, you and I can get it done together in two and a

half hours and it'll be done forever, and then your website will become your

most powerful sales tool.

Speaker 1 (36:01):

That's brilliant. The quick turnaround I think is really

incredible and what people want.

Speaker 2 (36:07):

Yeah, I mean, when you own your own business wearing all

the hats, there's not a lot of free time and you don't have time to, number

one, write it yourself or hire a copywriter and spend a month going back and

forth doing edits, and that's why it's a collaborative process. We literally do

it together.

Speaker 1 (36:27):

Very cool. Well, if that speaks to you, please check out Kris's

stuff, and all of that's linked in the show notes. I just wanted to sort of

wrap up with one thing that really I try to ask my guests, what is a quote or

an idea or something that you turn to that just really helps you? It doesn't

even have to be related to business. It can just be like I say this every

morning or whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:50):

Yeah. Oh, what a great question. I think that something

that helps me a lot is just asking myself the question, how can I make this

easier? And whatever I'm doing, how can I make it easier? And I find that I can

complicate things just like I think humans, we all do, and especially if we

want to put ourselves out there and in a really, not a perfect way, but just I

have a high level of I expect a lot out of the work that I do, and so it's a

fine balance between perfectionism and just doing your best, but I find that

that question helps me just continue to keep things really, really simple.

Speaker 1 (37:41):

I love that. It actually just made me relax. When you said

it, I was like, Hmm, how can I make it easier? Yeah,

Speaker 2 (37:48):

I can record a meditation for that.

Speaker 1 (37:51):

Please do and share it with me. But I think that that's

super valuable, and all of this was fantastic. I know it's a baseline sort of

place to start for people, but I really think for photographers, this is going

to be super useful. So thank you, Kris, so much, and we can do this again,

maybe dig in a little deeper on some of this stuff another time, but I really

appreciate you coming on the show.

Speaker 2 (38:14):

Yeah, I'd really love to. I think we should definitely do

that.

Speaker 1 (38:18):

Sounds good. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed

that. I think we jumped around a little bit, but for the most part, I mean, I

learned stuff and I was reminded that man communication is so, so important. I

think all of the bullet points we covered here are useful forever, no matter

what you're doing, whether you're a photographer or doing something else. I

think this was a fantastic overview and really tangible stuff to take away. If

you enjoyed this episode, please go back and check out episode number 3 55. It

was just a couple of weeks ago with Tenay Sanders. We're talking copywriting 1

0 1, tips and tricks for photographers. If you package these two episodes

together, take a few notes, you are going to be well on your way to attracting

clients, more clients, and having a stronger message. Thank you for listening.

We will be back next week.

Speaker 1 (39:10):

You've heard me talk about pick time before, but don't

skip past this. This is big news from pick time. It's a game changer. I am so

excited about this. This is going to change my business for sure. Pick time is

now offering blogs. Yeah, blogs. What does that mean? You can go directly to

your gallery. So let's say you have a beautiful mini session gallery that

you've already shared with your clients that's already connected to your

awesome store where they can buy stuff and you can just, with the click of two

buttons, make all of those photos in that gallery into a beautiful blog post.

Not only that, you can get a link to that blog post, which takes people to pick

time or this is my favorite part. You can get an embed code. You can literally

create this in seconds and embed it on your own website so that you can get the

SEO traffic if you want to.

Speaker 1 (40:00):

But if you wanted to just make a quick blog post for, say,

a wedding client to look through, or a really easy way to tell a story, there's

so many cool features with this. It is the newest product from pick time and it

is going to change the game. You don't need to upload images twice. This is

optimized for SEO. There's tons of customizable color palettes, font,

collections, photo grids, and multiple layouts. So if you want your blog to

look a certain way, you can do that. There's slideshows, you can allow videos

or gifs, all that stuff you can embed directly into the blog post. It's

amazing. This feature is coming soon in February as of this recording, which is

February 2nd, it should be well on its way. If you are not a paid member of

pick time and you would like to take part in this, when all of this launches in

the next few days, go to pick time.

Speaker 1 (40:54):

And when you upgrade to a paid plan, use the code Photo

Biz Help. That's Photo Biz help to get one month free. So this is the best

thing ever. You can try it for a month. Keep paying if you want to. And that's

it. It's a great deal. I swear this is going to change everything and it's

going to save people so much time. So head over to Pick Time and when you

upgrade to a paid plan, use the code PhotoBiz help for one month free and enjoy

this new blog feature. One more quick reminder, if you're feeling overwhelmed

right now, disorganized, check out 17 hats. You'll be able to focus on what you

do best photography. Meanwhile, 17 hats does exactly what you need done to

manage your business just as if you were doing it yourself. Go to photo biz

help.com/seventeen hats to get 50% off your first year.