CTC Ep. 37 | How to Sell Without Sales Calls: Joanna Lott's $4K Evergreen System

[00:00:00]

Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

Today we are talking to Joanna Lot who helps coaches actually make money doing what they love. And you have been there yourself, right? You've, as a coach, you started out you wanted to, to do coaching, you wanted to be a profitable business owner.

Were, did you struggle with that at the beginning and and is that why now you're helping other coaches do that work?

Joanna: Yes, exactly. I think most of us are trying to save our former self, so Totally. I did my coach training in executive coaching. I had read on websites that you could get. Something like 500 pounds per hour times 40 [00:01:00] hours a week.

And I was like, this is gonna be easy. Like I had no concept of marketing. I just thought somehow I. I was gonna just have these 40 hours a week. I mean, it was very misleading for a coach training organization to have that on their website, but sadly that's what they had. And you're so naive coming from employment and maybe never having had to market or do any of that type of work before.

Yes, I was the classic coach who has no idea about what they're about to get into. So I got my qualification. I thought everything was gonna change the moment that qualification was in my hands. And then obviously you realize that everybody says. That's really nice. That's really inspiring, but no one is booking you.

So I went on a long journey, obviously worked with lots of amazing mentors, learned everything I needed to build up my executive and career coaching business, and eventually did super well, was really visible, overcame so many hurdles. Of doing [00:02:00] that because I genuinely was your classic coach who had no idea and soon I was marketing really well and really busy.

So I started my program on the side four and a half years ago now, and like helping coaches to do this as well as doing my previous executive in career coaching work. And eventually it's grown and grown. So that's my sole focus now is to help coaches to do what I so desperately wish someone would've helped me to do really effectively at the start.

Kris: And tell me when you, when you worked with those mentors, right? When you decided, okay, gosh, just 'cause I have a certification doesn't mean clients are gonna wanna work with me. What did you learn? What were one or two of the, the biggest takeaways that you learned during that period that turned things around for your business?

Joanna: Yeah. Well, in all honesty, I didn't really find. Exactly what I needed. I joined a program that was way too advanced for where I was at, so it was very in depth about getting funding and things that are just not [00:03:00] relevant when you are starting a business or when you're starting this type of business. So what I really wish, so I've essentially created what I really wish I had because it took me a long time because the programs I was in were just not suitable.

Mm-hmm. So what I would do now, and what I do obviously in my program is. Really tune into why you want your business to begin with and what are your goals for it, and how committed you are to showing up for it. Mm-hmm. Then identifying your ideal client and what problem you are solving, again, which is really hard for a coach.

'cause you learn, you can help everyone with everything. So niche down. And then third piece is create a tangible offer rather than try and sell coaching. So. Sadly, none of the programs I did really taught that. So I think I went around the houses. I'm not sure how I eventually picked it up, but thank God some, at some point I did pick up that they are the real fundamentals and then consistently marketing your business after that.

Right.

Kris: And when you talk [00:04:00] about consistently marketing, what does that mean?

Joanna: I call it your constant marketing protocol, which sounds a little bit depressing with the word constant in there, but I like to think it's quite reassuring. It's your baseline, like what I want it to become. It's just something that I do.

It's not heavy. I don't have to think, oh gosh, I've got to write a LinkedIn post. It's just something that I do. So my constant marketing protocol is posting on LinkedIn five times a week. I know that might sound a lot depending on who's listening. I do a podcast once a week. And I do master classes maybe once a quarter.

So that is my constant marketing protocol. It's not heavy anymore, it's just something that I do and I don't have to think about it 'cause it's a routine and it just happens. I. Hmm.

Kris: I love that. Yeah. There, there is such a mind mindset shift when you start to think about these as just [00:05:00] part of your job, right?

It's just part of your job and it's not like endless homework. It's just part of the way you go fishing and you, you reach people. Um. I talk a lot about with my clients, I talk about the website as the center of your marketing universe, and the importance of really getting your website tuned up with your story, with your core offer, and really dialing it in.

Dialing it in in a way that it acts as your top sales employee. Like if you were to hire a full-time sales person. I, I don't want you to have to hire a full-time salesperson. I want your website to do that work, but what I'm getting at is. I like to think of the website as the sun in your marketing universe.

All around the sun, there are lots of different planets and when I think about each planet is a marketing activity. One might be LinkedIn posting, one might me be [00:06:00] masterclasses, one might be email marketing, one might be social media posting. And what I like to tell my clients, 'cause I think you, you and I are both aligned.

In a less is more approach to not only marketing, but business ownership is to pick two planets. You do not have to be on all the planets. Pick two planets that you genuinely enjoy and you genuinely look forward to. For me, posting on social media feels like never ending homework, whereas. Getting on a podcast, talking, having a conversation with somebody on a podcast feels very life-giving.

It feels effortless. It feels fun. I look forward to it. I love talking about what I do, and I love learning. Learning about other people. So podcasting is one of my planets. I picked that one and then I picked email marketing because I know that can be fun for me and I. And I love the engagement that it gets.

Those are my two planets. I don't really do [00:07:00] any of the other planets and I don't think anybody else needs to either. Does that resonate with you?

Joanna: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I always tell my clients to do what makes you feel good. There's no point. In doing, like, I don't say you have to use LinkedIn to grow your business because some people it, it is just not gonna work for, like I'm really into tuning into exactly who you are, what energizes you, and the less is more approach.

So like you say, I suggest people pick if they're using social media. One soul platform to focus on because you cannot do any more than that. It's hard enough to do one, as you've said. Yeah. And then one deeper nurture place. So your email list or your speaking on podcasts, or maybe a blog, something that's deeper.

So I talk about it as shallow, which is social media and deep. So you might want the shallow to bring people in to your deeper nurture places. Hmm. But love how you, you don't use social media and [00:08:00] make, um, really go big on podcasting. And I've noticed that.

Kris: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really effective and, and everybody gets to choose their planet.

And then when you're doing that. Activity on the planet that you've chosen point people back to the website knowing it's gonna do that work of selling for you. Speaking of selling, you talk about not having to do sales calls at all. Is that, is that right? And, and if it is, how does that work?

Joanna: Yeah. It's amazing.

I used to find, I work basically 20 hours a week 'cause I have kids, as you know, and I used to find I was probably spending 10 hours a week on sales calls. And so I just had to figure out a different way and it was so nerve wracking moving to a sales page, which is now on my website, and I obviously thought no one's ever gonna buy from me again because.

You know, that's how people buy from me. How could I do this?

Kris: Right?

Joanna: But anyway, I, I gave it a shot and [00:09:00] I wouldn't say everybody just hits buy now on the sales page. But what they do is complete an application on the sales page. If they're not ready to buy now, it will say curious, but have questions. It will take them to a Google Doc, which they can complete about.

Where they're at, where they're wanting to get to, all of the things. Mm-hmm. And then I use loom.com. So it's a video platform where you can share my screen, talk through exactly where they're at. And I, for some reason, I can just be so much more open and I think they can be so much more open because in the form I maybe have asked questions that I wouldn't feel that comfortable asking, like, how much money have you earned in your business?

I probably wouldn't say that on a sales call, a discovery call. But strangely enough, in a form, I can ask all the questions that I really need to know and I can say, what questions do you have for me to make sure this is the right fit? And therefore we can actually have a really transparent conversation, [00:10:00] even though it's not face-to-face.

Because in my video where I talk through their answers, you know, they've been really transparent with me, which allows me to be really transparent back. And so I would say I have probably an. 85 to 90% conversion rate from my Loom videos, and that's for a fairly high ticket program. It's 3,600 pounds, so over $4,000 I guess.

Uh, yeah, which is quite unheard of, I think, for someone that's not particularly famous to be able to convert without sales calls. That's incredible.

Kris: I, I love it because it's still very intimate. It's very personal. They feel like they're really getting you, your eyes on their business and a connection with you, but you get to do it on your own time.

In your pajamas or whenever you have like a free 15 minutes to kind of hop on Loom. And I'm a, I'm a big lover of Loom, but I've never used it in my, in my sales call [00:11:00] process. And I think that's, that's brilliant because I think none of us really mind working. It's just we wanna work on our own time, you know?

And we wanna work when we wanna work. And I think as parents. We could have little windows here and there, but we never quite know when those little windows are going to occur. So how lovely that you've kind of strategized the sales process without having to get on sales calls. So did you remove the sales call button from your website altogether?

Joanna: I

Kris: did.

Joanna: So people do sometimes message saying, I'm on your website, I'm looking for a way to book a call with you, and I can't find one. And I used to say, oh yeah, of course, here's my Calendly link. And you know, 'cause I was still in the early days of doing it, but now generally I send a loom back to that.

Website query saying I'm a, you know, I'm a mom and I, I only work really reduced hours. Therefore it's much easier for me to be able to reply, you know, in my own time. So please let me [00:12:00] know more about you. I can't wait to learn about you, and I'll reply, you know, via a video message like this. So yes, I've removed that.

I mean, I'm not saying I would never. Have a call if someone really wants. But I do try to do that and it, and it really works. 'cause nearly every time I go straight to the call and just say, oh, that's fine. Here's my Calendly link. I regret it because I think we've missed that extra warming up phase of the loom.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's amazing. It amazes me, even though I've been doing it for about a year now and consistently sold my program every single month, five spots a month, four, you know, over a year in this process with no deadlines, no fake scarcity. You know, it's never green program. They can join any time.

Yeah. So it's, it's amazed. It amazes me

Kris: this way. Wow. That, that kind of blows my mind. The piece about every time you send the Macallan Lee link, you're, you're like thinking, ooh, like that, that little gut nudge of like, Ooh, we've just skipped over. This kind [00:13:00] of intimate warming up. I love, I love that. That was kind of a surprise awareness that came out of this.

Like it's not only as good, but it's actually better than having a sales call. Right. I. It

Joanna: really is better because like I say, that transparency, they can see it on their terms. I can do it on my terms and yeah, I think it just suits all of us. We're all busy people and with limited time in the diary, so I.

Yeah, it just helps me really talk through all of the options. I can also share screen. So for example, if they're interested in the program, I can show them inside the portal. I can show them inside the Slack group and say, here's the community. As you can see, it's really active, so you can also help them take a sneak peek, which you can't really do so well on a sales call or a sales page.

So yeah, it works on lots of different levels.

Kris: Oh, that's so good. That's so good. I know my listeners are kind of, their minds are blown right now because I, I know mine is. Um, so is, is [00:14:00] this when you talk about building trust, is that how you do it or there are additional things that you do to build the trust?

Joanna: Yeah, the trust is really important. And I wouldn't say many people can go straight to a sales page. If you are new in business maybe, and you haven't got. Much marketing out there, it's, it's really hard generally to sell from a sales page, and they have usually quite low conversion rates. The things that I did that helped me to do that really effectively is firstly.

Really prioritize video case studies with previous clients. So my sales page has maybe 20 videos on it, you know, short edited videos of the impact so they can see real people like them with their real full names talking through the program. So that's really helped. And again, that's taken time to build up, but I really prioritize it, which helps me give amazing service.

'cause I'm obsessed by getting a case study and it helps them to celebrate their own [00:15:00] progress. And everyone wants to be a case study, so they'll see that sales page and they think one day. I'm gonna be sharing my story and loads of my clients say that to me. They, they envisage that right from the start.

So the case studies has really helped. And the other thing that's really helped is the podcast. So, like I say, the deep nurturing, that's enabled me to do it because then people get to hear me every week. Mine is a solo. Podcast. So it is genuinely just me usually, although obviously sometimes I have guests as you know, Chris, but generally they get to hear me every week with my thinking process and get to know me that way as well.

So I think those two things have made it possible to sell from the sales page.

Kris: Oh my gosh, yes, the podcast. Especially the solo, solo episodes when you're, you're literally in their ear. You're in their brain, and it is such an intimate moment, and they're gonna be listening at a time where they can really.

Hear you. Um, even if they're doing the [00:16:00] dishes or taking the dog for a walk or whatever it is like that, just gentle, soft, persistent, getting to know somebody. Um, it, it's real, right? You're making this recording, but they're really getting to know you in such a beautiful way. I love that you prioritize your case study calls, and I a hundred percent resonate with this.

I began to make this a priority about two years ago and after I worked with clients, I would schedule a 15 minute. Uh, case study call and just to talk about what's happened for them, what they were struggling with, where they're at now. And it is, I look forward, I'm a, I'm as obsessed as you are about these calls, and they're so fun.

They, they really remind me of. How powerful the work that I do is. But it's also just like, it's such a joyful experience to watch what happens in people's lives as a result of, of [00:17:00] the work together. Um, video testimonials and video case study calls. I think a a, they're hard to get. A lot of people don't do them.

A lot of people feel like they don't have time to do them. For many years, I felt like I don't have time to do that. Um, and then I realized this is proof. This is proof that what I'm doing is working for people and everyone's busy. Um, when you ask a client for a testimonial. It's kind of a big load, right?

They don't know what to say. They, they don't know where to begin. No one wants to be on video. I mean, it's like there's a lot of hurdles to get over, which is why I don't do it that way. I, I book a 15 minute call and I let them know it's probably only gonna be 10 minutes, but. I'm gonna add five minutes in there just for a little cushion, and I ask them four questions and we get right to the heart of things, and [00:18:00] then I pull that video into script.

I edit it down so I, I remove all the fluff I get, you know, I just get the good nuggets out of there and then upload it to my website and I then I have a page. Of proof, a page of proof. Everybody needs a page of proof. And even if you only have th three clients, even if you only have one client that you can say really experienced a good result with you, and they're willing to hop on a a short call, everyone's willing to hop on a short call.

Nobody minds. A, a recorded zoom, call it, it's no big deal. But it's very different than having to pick up your phone and just speak to your own face and talk about a situation that you've been through. And so that's how I've kind of overcome that hurdle. And I think everybody, everyone wins, right? It's such a, to your point, it's such a good reminder to them of what they've accomplished and how far they've come and, and that is just the best.

Joanna: [00:19:00] Oh, so, so good. And yes, like you say, on my website I have a page called Results with all of the different videos and I, that actually did come from a mentor who once said. What you eventually want is one of those pages where you just scroll and scroll and scroll and the social proof is never ending. And I remember at that point thinking I'm gonna create one of those.

And I literally have. And now she says to me, 'cause now we're in a mastermind together at the same level. I cannot believe that you've prioritized this one bit of golden nugget, and she hasn't prioritized it quite as much as me now. So it's like, yeah, hilarious. That one small comment can make such a big impact in your business.

Kris: A hundred percent. And you know what I, I love about what you just shared is that the page is called results, right? You, you just very clearly said this is, these are the results that people get in one word. Um, and I think I'm gonna change the name of mind to results, um, per your inspiration. So thank you for that.

Oh, you're [00:20:00] so. I have a lot of coaches in my world. I'm, I'm intimately like I'm in a mastermind with other coaches. Um, I consider myself like a, a, a story strategist and a marketing strategist, and I. And I love story, but I'm in a world with a lot of other coaches and I work intimately. My clients, many of them, most of them are coaches, I would say.

Um, things are changing a little bit. Like I feel like the times are changing. What, what are, what trends are you seeing and, and what do you see for the next year or two in the coaching industry?

Joanna: Yes, totally. I do think things are changing massively. I think it's taking a lot longer for people to buy. So previously people would sign clients quite quickly, whereas now it takes a lot longer.

Even the clients that work with me have generally been looking at me for a year plus prior to purchasing from me. So I do think buyer decisions are slower. [00:21:00] I think the hype is over. People are tiring, a bit of the hype, so I think that's died down and trust and in-person events are starting to come back.

I'm hosting in-person event in a few weeks, and I throw in two of those a year to allow people to come and really experience what it's like. So yeah, things are changing. I think there'll hopefully always be a need for real true connection that AI can't replace. And I experienced that just myself yesterday when I was thinking, ah, should I do something different in my business?

I tried to chat it through with chat GPT, and I just thought, gosh, you know what? I'm actually lonely, so I, I took the brave move of messaging my WhatsApp mastermind group and just said, has anyone got time for a call? Now, you know, usually you have to book in advance to speak to anybody these days. Mm-hmm.

And I was just so desperate to just chat it through with someone. Yeah. So maybe it's that, maybe [00:22:00] it's more readily available. Coaching, a bit like the Loom, I use that a lot with my clients to feedback on their websites offers, so it can be instant in the moment that they need it. So there are a few of the changes I've noticed.

How about you?

Kris: Mm. Um, real similar to what you shared, I think, you know, the coaching industry is saturated. Um, and I think that. People, it's take, like you said, it's taking people longer to make a decision. Um, I think people are holding onto their money a little bit tighter than maybe they have been in the past.

Um, and yeah, I think it just, I think also, I don't know if it's like. Economically or politically, or, or what it is, but I think people are just not as, um, willing to just dive into, uh. You know, a multiple thousand dollars investment as they might've been in the past. So it's different. Um, and, and [00:23:00] it, it's probably, it's not a bad thing.

I think it's an evolution, you know, and I think people are, um, more savvy now when. When it comes to more marketing, manipulate manipulation tactics like countdown timers and timelines, and this is the only chance and dah, dah, dah, like all that bullshit, basically, I think people are not falling for it anymore, which is a really good thing.

Like I think ultimately the real, uh, leaders, the real guides, the real. Like effective, tried and true coaches are always going to rise to the top. And I think you and I are both big believers in just authentic, honest marketing. And that's, it's not always the way to get, um, like it's not gonna necessarily get you the quickest result, but it's gonna be sustainable and effective over the long haul.

Joanna: Yeah, totally. And it can feel quite frustrating. Like my [00:24:00] strap line is honesty, not hype. And sometimes it used to be really frustrating when you'd maybe have a sales call with somebody. This is a few years ago, and then, you know, the following week you'd see them in a Zoom call with someone. That's obviously said you can get a hundred k uh, in however, um, many days.

Uh, that I don't see it as often anymore as I used to, but I still think it is out there and lots of people do get sucked into wanting that magic pill rather than the hard work. So it can feel frustrating. I think sometimes marketing with honesty, not hype, but like you say long term that I can sleep well at night.

Yeah. That I can serve my clients well, that I can get amazing case studies, which most of these people are just. Pretend saying, oh, you know, this person got this. I've never seen these case studies from them before. So it's just words, isn't it? So I think you just have to go with your heart and gut and do what's right, don't you?

Yeah,

Kris: absolutely. [00:25:00] So I've got one more question for you before we wrap up. Um, I wanna hear about how you've transitioned, um, from one-on-one work to group work and how you kind of keep that. Personal touch when you scale. I know this is really relevant for a lot of the clients that I work with and making that shift and the fear around, gosh, when I move to a group model, it's, it's gonna be impersonal or it's gonna be less effective.

And I wanna hear y your experience of going one-on-one to group and how you've really. How you've made that transition and how you've maintained the connection, the intimacy, the success. Yeah, totally.

Joanna: Yeah. I only run a group now. It has got quite large, and it's funny that every point I've thought, oh, I can't have any more than six people.

I can't have any more than 10. And then I got to 20. I was like, I better stop. And now I think I have 45 people in my [00:26:00] current group program. Which makes me feel slightly sick. 'cause I always thought, I don't wanna have one of these impersonal large group programs. And then suddenly you're like, my program is quite large now, but it's not impersonal and I know every single person really well.

And I think how I've done that is that it's all I sell. I don't even sell one-on-one really. So my group is my. My core focus. Mm-hmm. I use things like voice note looms so they can share exactly where they're at with me and I can immediately go back and hear them and see them and and help them with exactly where they're at.

Rather than say, no, sorry, it's week two, or you have to wait for the group call. So I do give a lot of support offline. Rather, but not on one-on-one calls, but offline in different ways. I do lots of, I've created lots of systems, so we send like a personalized journal when they start. We'll send maybe cards when they gain their first client.

We'll send a leaving gift when they leave. [00:27:00] Um, let's think, how else have I managed to create that personal touch? W we have, um, I have a Google form, so it's like a monthly action review. Mm. So they can complete that each month I'll send them a loom back. Mm. So it'll be like celebrating their success, hearing where they're at, asking what more support do you need?

So I never have that sinking feeling of people being in the program and quietly, you know, not. Stepping forward and, and sharing what help that they need. Because I'm asking them, what more can I do to support you? So every month they get an opportunity to say, oh, I'm feeling this, or It would be great to have that.

And again, I'll give them a personalized response to every thing there. So they're my key ways I think of keeping it personal.

Kris: Um, tell me, um, I, I feel like from just what I'm hearing, like you've kind of cracked the code on how to not, how to avoid a launch model necessarily, and you've turned your program into evergreen, which I think is [00:28:00] like really what everybody wants, like usual from, that's my gut, although I have really.

I intentionally avoided a launch model business and it is evergreen, but I do work one-on-one with my clients. So I wanna know for, from your perspective, how did you, did you transition? Were you doing launches and then you transitioned to Evergreen? And how the heck did you do that?

Joanna: Yeah, great question because again, it's another thing that I think people really struggle with and I'm sometimes mind blown that I've achieved it.

So yes, I started with five day challenges, which were obviously excruciatingly exhausting and you might work so hard to get two people to say yes after you've just literally given your life for a week, which is hard when you've got kids and, uh, all of the things. So yes, that's how I used to do it. And then I saw someone online, which is why I think it's really important that we [00:29:00] do share our stories, saying that she was running an evergreen program, working school hours, only term time only.

I. And I thought, God, that's, how does that work? How can I take? So we have quite a long holiday here, six weeks in the summer. I've got a week off next week. You know, we have a lot of holidays here, so I was confused as to how it would work, but I thought I would try it considering I saw that she was managing it.

And so first it was a bit of a trickle, so it was kind of still felt launchy. 'cause I didn't really know what I was doing. So maybe I had six people join from the launch and then I had one person join the following month and then the other six would be coming up to their end date. 'cause it used to be a three month program.

Mm-hmm. So I think my learning there is, if you're gonna do Evergreen, it really needs to be a six month to ensure you don't get to that awkward position where. Six are leaving and there's one person in the program. Right? So that was a learning. So I extended them, gifted them another three months because I was like, oh my goodness, like what am I gonna do?

[00:30:00] And, and then I just slowly started getting my head around it. The podcast, which is that Deep Evergreen marketing, the case studies. And just having that one call to action for absolutely everything that I do is, this is the only way to work with me. So you will have people, and I still get people all the time going, oh, well I just want two sessions with you to, you know, create my niche, create my offer, whatever it might be.

And I sometimes, I don't really often anymore, but I sometimes used to give into that, whereas now I think I want the case study. Luckily, my obsession with the case study, I'm like, I don't wanna just give you two sessions because that's not gonna do anything for me or for you.

Kris: Right?

Joanna: Because great. You'll go off with your niche or you'll go off with your offer.

But I wanna see you consistently implement it so you get the result that you want, which then gives me the result that I want, which is the case study, right? And obviously they get the amazing business at the end of it. So I just got really good at saying, no, this is what I offer and if you wanna work with me, [00:31:00] this is how you can do that.

I now, um, there's some new things that I've put in place to be a lot stricter with it. So now, for example, I have a start date at the beginning of each month, which I didn't use to have. They could genuinely, one would join one week, one would join the next week, whereas now that creates that natural.

Urgency that there kind of is a start date and it says 3rd of June or 3rd of July, and I change that each month. So they do get that little thing in their head of like, if I wanna do it this month, I do need to do it by the 3rd of June, so I get that. Also, there's only five spaces available each month.

Yeah, because obviously it's that beginning period that they really do need a lot of help. Yeah. So I used to have on my website, you know, two out of five spaces available, and I genuinely go in and manually update it when people join. So it is real and not fake scarcity. And then I've just learned how to craft my calls.

To be able to handle people wherever they're at on the [00:32:00] journey. And lots of that is by giving personal support outside of the calls, because sometimes. You know, people are bored with listening to somebody else's niche drama. So for, for certain things, I will say, just message me about that and we'll go back and forth as many times as we need to.

Yeah. So you get really clear on that. So I, I'm quite strict of the sorts of things people bring to the calls and I do a lot of activities on the calls that will be suitable for everyone rather than it be a boring q and a each week, which is just kind of dull.

Kris: Right. Wow. You are definitely onto something here.

So Joanna, it has been such a delight to have you here, and I just, it feels good to really connect with someone who I feel like is in a lot of alignment with the way I run my business, and I think it's beautiful. I'm so grateful that you shared all your wisdom with us today. Tell my audience where they can find you.

Joanna: Yes, totally. Thank you. It's been an [00:33:00] absolute pleasure and I have a podcast too called Women in the Coaching Arena, so you can check that out. And my website is joanna lot coaching.com. So Joanna with an A and lots with two t's, joanna lots coaching.com and I've got a free, um, success planner for coaches on there, which will take you through from.

Literally every single step of the way of building your business. So, um, yes, I would love to meet you. All right, thank you.

Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next.