From Solo to Success: How Kris Jones Scaled Her Design

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The Grow a Small Business Podcast with Troy Trewin

[00:00:00] Welcome everyone. Today I'm interviewing Kris Jones from Red Door Designs based in beautiful Portland, Oregon in the United States. Thanks for your time today, Kris. I'm really happy to be here, Troy. Let's start with how we know each other. Leva from the podcast growth agency put us in touch and I read your background.

I think we're going to have a great chat today. Yep. I know we are. Tell our audience a bit about your business, what it does and how it makes money. Yeah. I have a company called Red Door Stories and I started the company 23 years ago. So I've been at it a long time and it started out really in storytelling through design.

And that was really how I got involved in the industry. Um, I spent many years working for larger corporations like Nike and Adidas. I've had clients like Jeff Bezos, um, [00:01:00] and over the years, I really I learned a lot working for those clients, but eventually it ended up starting my own business and naturally gravitated toward solopreneurs, small business owners, service providers, because that was really my journey as well.

Like I've. I've navigated the journey of entrepreneurship and found success over the years. And now I like to help my clients do the same thing. So started Red Door Designs 23 years ago and was Really focused on branding, visual storytelling, website design. And the way it worked was I'd have a client come to me, they would hire me to do their branding in a website, and I would say, okay, your website copy is due on April 1st, and then I will start the design portion of the project [00:02:00] and, and I guess what happens?

Cause I had a web design development company in Melbourne and it was the copy was the thing that always blew out the launch deadline or timeline. Is that what happened? Completely. Completely. Yeah. I think you're, you're psychic. Um, yeah. So this happened within a number of clients, which is why I really shifted gears.

In my business, but there was one client in particular named Elise and she had a background in publishing. So she felt very confident with words and with writing and she was really excited to write her own website copy. And I said, perfect, you copy, I'll do the design and we're off and running. So her project due date was April 1st and I got a call from her that day and she'd been up like nearly all night long.

She was. Distraught, um, frustrated. And she was like, Kris, I don't know what is going on, but I cannot write my [00:03:00] own copy. This is impossible. Like, I don't know why, because I know what I'm doing, but I can't write what I want to write. And no matter how hard I work, I'm unable to really break. Through what, what can I do to help?

So I, we brainstormed, I gave her the name of a couple of copywriters. I gave her some templates to follow. I recommended she talked to previous clients and she did all of those things. Hiring the copywriters in particular, which was. Additional money that she hadn't planned on spending. And ultimately none of those things worked because in hindsight, what I realized is you can't outsource your own voice when your business is your baby.

When you are the face of your business and it's an extension of you, you can't outsource your voice. It's got to really [00:04:00] be aligned with your voice. And so. Through That project thanks to elise and a handful of other clients that were really struggling in the same way I just And I should add to like the reality was my own website Wasn't bringing in the types of clients that and the consistent flow of clients that That I really needed.

I was relying solely on referrals, which as we know, referrals are great, but they're pretty inconsistent in that piece of my business was stressing me out. Basically. And so I made it my mission. I said, I'm never going to let another client struggle with copy again. I'm going to master the art of how to tell a compelling and powerful story, both online and in, and in person.

And I flew across the country for workshops. I [00:05:00] became one of the very first story brand guides. I just immersed myself in this work and kind of came out the other side of that and, um, began to apply story and story brand to Every project that I worked on and it was, it was really mind blowing because not only did I apply it to my client's websites, but I applied it to my own website as well.

And my clients were calling me, telling me things like I'm, you know, I'm now able to charge. Six times more from what I was charging before. I'm no longer burning out. We've tripled our revenue Like it was just I was getting these calls over and over again, and it felt like you know kind of a magic bullet, um, which I Which took me a while to really believe but you know eight years in um [00:06:00] Into this really focus on story and my business and client temperature client, it works.

And, and at the same time, it was working for me personally. Like I revamped the way that I talked about my business. I infused story into all my messaging and. People, I would get on the phone with them to talk about a project and they were pre sold. They were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when can we get started?

So like the selling that I used to do was completely eliminated. Also, I was able to Charge more than I had ever charged because I was attracting a different caliber of client, and I was also able to promise much greater results. Um, and so that's kind of how the journey unfolded. Yeah, I've become a big fan of copy and copywriting in the last two or three years and absolutely loved Donald Miller's book, um, Building a Story Brand.

Uh, I remember after listening to the book, [00:07:00] I was running, I was in Brisbane at the time, running up and down the river and got back to the hotel room, opened up my website and made all the fucking mistakes. Like just talking about myself, not about the, you know, making me the hero, instead of, as you well know, making the prospect the hero and we're the guide.

And that, that framework is, is really Powerful. So I encourage listeners to grab a copy of that book for sure. For sure. Yeah. It will change the way you talk about your business and you'll never be able to kind of, it provides you with a lens for looking at your business in a way that you'll never remove that lens.

Like it's a gift. Mm hmm. And maybe tell the audience about your podcast and your book. Um, I have a podcast called From Click to Client, and I have a book that is also titled the same, same title, From Click to Client. It's a mouthful. And it's, um, meant for business [00:08:00] owners. It's a simple guide to a story driven website that turns visitors into clients.

Yep, great. Now your website looks terrific and obviously the copy is excellent. So, was it about 2014 you decided to ditch the web design and really hone in on, and niche down or niche down to helping people with their messaging and their copy? It was, I would, I would look at it more as an expansion. So, the website design became more of phase two.

Um, so it, it, It widened my scope. The foundational work was always, always began with the storytelling, getting clear on the story and the messaging. And then phase two was designing and building the website. And then phase three was building out the lead magnet and the email nurture sequence. So I went from charging essentially five grand.[00:09:00] 

For a website design to anywhere between 15 and 20 for the full funnel and the messaging. Yeah, great. Yeah. And how did you start out? Maybe go back to, you know, I know you mentioned you had, um, you know, corporate career. Well, maybe tell the audience, what was the catalyst for you to, to start your own business?

Well, actually, I graduated from college with a degree in teaching. I feel like I'm a teacher at heart and I teach my clients. I, I love that aspect of it. Cause I, I want to write your copy for you and write your story, but I also want to help you understand the why behind why it works. And when I graduated from college, I realized.

That I did not want to be a teacher. Um, and so I took off like a lot of Australians do, I took off to Europe for like a year, year and a [00:10:00] half. And while I was in Turkey, I met these two Australian women and they were both graphic designers. I'd never heard of the profession before. Like this is back in the day, like.

Early, early website days, kind of back when all you needed was a beautiful website to be a legit business. Um, messaging wasn't really as necessary. And, um, and so I met these two women and one of them came back to Portland with me and I showed her around my town and I took her to Powell's and she bought design books.

And I just like through osmosis really decided to go back to school for design. And, um, once I did that, like everything really unfolded really quickly. It was like, I had got it quickly. I got an internship then quickly I got hired and then quickly I got promoted to art director. And then very quickly after that, I was working at [00:11:00] Nike.

And then after that Adidas wanted to work with me. And, and so it just, it was like. I finally stepped into the river of like what my purpose was and it just carried me down, downstream, um, to the opportunities and, and the alignment with really like my purpose. Um, it was a beautiful. It was like in hindsight, it was really beautiful how it all kind of came together.

And you started in 2001. How old, how old were you then when you decided to make the jump? 2001, I was 27, I think, 28. Um, yeah, I had been working for larger corporations. It's on contract and then just decided, um, to start my own thing. And it was beautiful cause I had, I had made these relationships inside of Nike and Adidas.

And [00:12:00] then as a freelancer, they would hire me. So it was a nice cushion, um, it was a soft way to kind of enter into things. And then I. Somebody called me from a, um, advertising agency and they needed an art director to come in one or two days a week. And so I started doing that and over the course of kind of 10 years, just had very consistent work.

So it was, it was certainly meant to be, and I never really had to go through that, um, Major struggle of like not having any clients thankfully. And what was it like working with Jeff Bezos? Oh my gosh. Um, he is meticulous, uh, certainly a perfectionist as you can imagine. Um, he thinks outside the box in a big way.

Um, [00:13:00] he has like layers of people, right. That like, it's. You work through these multiple layers and then ultimately it's like, okay, we're going to bring this concept into Jeff right now. Are you available for quick feedback and um It was it was wonderful. I mean Jeff Bezos gets a bad rap because I'm you know Mixed people have mixed emotions around him like you love him or you hate him or you kind of a mixture of both but He, at the time that I worked with him, which was like three or four years ago, um, he was on a mission to create free Montessori child care for low income families.

Across the nation and so it was a really beautiful project to work on and visually very compelling and messaging was [00:14:00] really compelling and it was just like a feel good project so that I think that influenced my experience of working with him. Do you have some key numbers you can share to illustrate the growth of the business?

The growth of my business? Yeah. Um, well there was one stat that my bookkeeper shared with me yesterday. Okay. Which was I have it right here in front of me. Actually, she said your increase Net income from this year versus last year is 384 percent growth. Wow. Fantastic. Well done. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

I mean, that's the power of story. I tell you, I tell you like it, it really works. Um, in this day and age. Everybody is inundated with information, they're bombarded, [00:15:00] they're overwhelmed, and story has this beautiful, um, flow to it that helps, like, helps us engage fully and feel connected in the story and kind of filter out the noise of the world, so, um, yeah, it has been, since I started integrating this work into my own business.

It's just been continuous growth. And you obviously started on your own. How many full time equivalent team members are you up to now? I have a full time VA. I have a part time, um, bookkeeper. Accountant. I have a part time developer, website developer, and then I have two part time, uh, podcast scouts. So about four?

Yeah, including me. Or not including me. Yeah. [00:16:00] Okay. Yeah, great. Yeah. When was the moment you felt like you had succeeded? Mmm. Gosh, that's a good question. You know, I think what, when it really hit me was when I When I came through that, that, that intense phase of really immersing myself and in story and applying it to my own business and really watching firsthand the results of that, um, there were a couple moments that, that I can.

Reflect on one of them was within a month. I had two people, one person took the train, bought a train ticket to Portland. She wanted to meet me. She was a dentist. She wanted to meet with me and work with me and have me do her website. So that's a lot of effort, you know, to like, want to work with somebody.

But that [00:17:00] was the power of my website was getting people excited about working with me. And so she Took the train here. And then another, um, business, it was a partnership. They both road tripped to Portland from Seattle to meet with me and talk about doing their website. And so I, I just, it started to hit me like, wow, people are really pre sold and they're just.

Not only sold, but they're really excited and eager to work together and that felt really good. And then When I was pregnant with my son, who's now seven You know it a couple things happened. I Started expanding the scope of work that I was providing for my clients So it became like I said more of a 15 to 20 thousand dollar engagement.

So my annual revenue Like multiplied and multiplied that year and [00:18:00] then. Beautifully, I had my son and I didn't have the capacity to do all the work. And so I started getting help and that was kind of building another muscle of learning for me, how to hand things off and how to delegate and that year I made more than I'd ever made in my, the history of my business.

So it was a lot of learnings and a lot of. Like delightful lessons that came out of that amazing. What you can do when you learn to let go and delegate, isn't it? It's incredible. It's really, it's like, it's such a double whammy because like we resist it for a long time. And there's this belief that, Oh, I'll just do, I can just do it quicker.

I can do it better. But, um, as a business owner to be able to let go, and I don't know about you, but. For myself, I [00:19:00] got into this work because of the freedom that it promised, or that it could provide, and often that's not what it feels like when we get into this, like we're wearing so many hats, our plates are so full, um, it doesn't feel as free as we imagined it to be, and so when you begin to delegate, that's when that freedom, I think, begins to truly kick in.

What does success look like to you

being able to pick up my kid from school, um, being able to be in control of my schedule if he is sick, which I know you can relate to Troy with your daughter and, um, just being in charge of my own schedule. It's really, really, um, even if I'm, even if I decide to work a lot, I know I have the option to press pause.

One of the things that I've done in [00:20:00] the last. Many, many years is take an entire month off and go to another country. I could never do that if I were an employee. And so things like that, being able to exit my life, press pause on the business, and then come reenter my life with fresh eyes and fresh.

Inspiration and perspective, um, has been one of the best parts of being self employed. Great question for you. Number one thing you'd recommend to marketing a fast growing business? A hundred percent. It would be use story in your business and the DIY freeway or 15 way to do that is just to go buy the book, building a story brand by Donald Miller.

Um, it, it truly will change your business. And, and then buy my book after that. From click, click to client. , [00:21:00] I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna grab a a, a copy and have a listen. Definitely. Awesome. Um, I've been right into a lot of marketing books the last couple of years. Have you read either of April Mumford's books, obviously.

Awesome. Which is on positioning and the book sales pitch. I haven't. I'll send them to you. They're awesome. Um, okay. Uh, I think it compliments StoryBrand well, because her first book, obviously Awesome, um, is all about getting your positioning right. And then the sales pitch, she couldn't believe no one, you know, had the title of that book sales pitch, but she's got it.

And that is also excellent. So you do the positioning first with obviously Awesome, um, work on your sales pitch and then the messaging with StoryBrand. Two. Yeah, two. Ah. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. And, uh, comes with a, um, canvas, like a PDF you use for both books to get your positioning and your, and your sales pitch nailed.

So yeah, really good resources. Very cool. Thank you for that. And how did you fund your business? [00:22:00] How did I fund it? Oh, well, I didn't, I, I am a big fan. I mean, the work I do is very much less is more keep it simple, you know, how to kind of. Use the power of one, whether it's one story, one offer, you know, just keep it simple.

And so when I started my business, I really just, I didn't have a lot of overhead. Um, I rented an office, but I shared that office with another company. Um, I had monthly rent, I had saved up to buy a computer, um, so I didn't have to go get funding for my business, thankfully. And I kept it simple for a very long time.

If you were to start up today with plenty of funding, would you go into your industry? 100%. [00:23:00] Yes, I would. Yeah, I really truly feel like I'm doing the work in the world that I was meant to do. Can you outline the most stressful point in your small business growth journey so audience can learn from it? Yes.

Yes. Um, I would say like, as my business evolved, there was a, there was a phase early in my business where I would, I was driven by fear and I would say yes to projects that maybe I wasn't the best fit for. And I said yes to a project. It was actually like a video editing project, which was out of my wheelhouse and the client deliverables like they had to get me a bunch of files in order for me to edit and those didn't come through till like [00:24:00] 10 p.

m. at night, and it was due the next morning, and so I edited my little heart out all night long, and I actually was, I wasn't even in my own office. I was in like This editing suite, downtown Portland all night long. And I remember rating the, um, I rated the lost and found closet because the, the air, the heat was off.

And so it was really, really, really cold. And I did my best. I got through the night, but the. Project was total mess. And so I had to like, then after an all nighter going to work that day, um, to that company and just say, this is sub par. And, and, and I remember like, I remember [00:25:00] pulling over in my car and just crying after that 'cause I was so tired and I was also like, so defeated,

So I think the, the lesson is really like stay in your own lane. Don't take projects that feel like really the things that, that don't involve, like you feeling really lit up about them and that them being in, in your zone of genius, just say no to those jobs. Other jobs will come. What area in business do you feel you've had to work on the most to add the greatest value?

Mmm. Well, the storytelling piece for sure. I think that's like, that's a no brainer. But I think the other piece is, has been, like getting help. I think that was, that was Um, something that I resisted for many, many, many years and finally, you know, thanks to my [00:26:00] son and thanks to the growth of my business, I had to get help.

And now like it's one of my favorite parts of my business, like having, knowing someone's working on my business when I'm not, it's a really, really good feeling. And then I've chosen people to work with that are really. aligned with me. And so it feels more like friendship than it does like a professional relationship.

It's just, it's, it's such a delight to have people on my team that are really invested in my business and, and our growth. What have you enjoyed the least about managing fast growth? Um,

I think that, you know, navigating the roadmap, you know, there is like charting, charting the path. Um, there is no, um, formula for it, um, because everyone's [00:27:00] different and your business is different and the way you want to grow is different. Like it's, it's such a unique journey that, um, charting that path has been.

challenging, but it really is like you just put one foot in front of the other and things open up. Um, I think the other thing that came to mind when you asked that question was just like having to sift through people that weren't a good fit for me and my team that weren't a good fit for my team in order to find the right fit people for my team.

I think that's been, um, a journey. Certainly. What do you love most about growing a small business? Oh, it's exhilarating. I mean, when it's when you find tools that really work and that you watch the immediate results of the work that you're doing, or the [00:28:00] strategies that you're implementing, and that very quickly equates to more revenue or whatever goal you're going for, um, that's really, that's really exhilarating for me.

Can you repeat that question one more time? Yeah, sure. What do you love most about growing a small business? The other thing I love most about growing a small business is the clients that I get to work with, like they're, they're extraordinary people. And as I mentioned, I feel like I'm doing the work here that I'm meant to do, but I'm working with clients who are extraordinary people.

Living their purpose too. And they're just so passionate about what they're doing and they just want to focus on the work and the fact that I can come in and help them do more of the work that they love and less of the marketing wearing less of the marketing [00:29:00] hat that they, they don't really want to be wearing.

Anyway, um, but, but the quality of people that I get to work with and then getting their feedback around how things are working for them or how easily they're able to grow their business because of the work that we, we do that, like that just really lights me up. What has been the biggest mindset shift for you in your small business growth journey?

My biggest mindset shift, um, that even if, this kind of goes back to getting help, um, allowing people to help me grow, even if I can do it faster and better, that, that doesn't mean that I should do it, you know, like, it's like, you got to overcome those, those beliefs kind of keep you stuck. And, um, There's [00:30:00] value in just like acknowledging like, okay, yeah, maybe I could do it faster.

Maybe I could do it better. But I certainly, if I don't give this person on my team an opportunity to do it on their own over and over and over again, it's, I'm never going to get the help that I need. Number one habit you think a small business owner needs to develop and maintain.

Wow. Um, I think, I mean, one of the habits that I guess you could call it a habit. One of the habits that I've adopted is to always ask my clients for feedback. And it's been really great because I hear, you know, Number one, like it's great to get a pat on the back. Oh, you helped me do this. And that feels good.

Of course that feels good. But I think it really does keep me in touch with my clients, what they need and, um, [00:31:00] what their experience was, if they needed additional help in a different area, like, I just think the habit of like really keeping that conversation open. has been really helpful for me. Um, it's also allowed me to like, get a fair amount of Google reviews as well.

So like that, those are kind of like the little seeds that you put in the garden that you forget about, but they really do support the growth long term and people do look at Google reviews. Um, and so it's important to like, little by little just invest in those. Little things that aren't like bright and shiny in the moment.

Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice for those listening? Can you repeat the question one more time? Yeah, sure. Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice [00:32:00] for those listening? Yes. Um, I added somebody to my team. Gosh, I added, so what I really wanted On my team was the VA, um, who could rally behind me and support me in the day to day.

Um, and that's what I, what I wanted. And what I ended up doing was hiring an OBM who was more high level, um, online business manager. She was more high level. And I found there was just this like ongoing frustration that I was feeling because I was wanting her to be in a different role than I had hired her to be in.

And that is not on her. That is on me. And eventually, you [00:33:00] know, it was still a positive relationship, but it was always a source of like frustration. Eventually I found my VA. And, um, I could tell like from the first time I talked with her that she was eager to please, um, enthusiastic, um, super smart, and willing to learn, and those four qualities really helped me, like, feel confident, like, oh, this is, she, she has the potential to be a really good fit.

And so, um, that's been probably the most exciting hire that I've had is just finding her because she's like my right hand woman she's on, you know, when I'm doing trainings, she's on those calls, managing the chats and, um, [00:34:00] she's just. A bundle of positive energy. And I think it's been really fun as, as someone who's grown a business over many, many years, mostly on my own.

It's been really a breath of fresh air to, to have a team and to feel supported in that way, but also just to kind of have fun banter day to day, back and forth. What are some things you recommend to building a sustainable and kick ass culture to help with the growth? I think that, like, I'm going to bring this back to story yet again.

I think the power of story is really getting clear on the problem that you solve, who you help and the success that you deliver, um, or that you guide those customers or clients, um, to achieve. And I think when you are on a [00:35:00] team. Or you're developing a culture when, when everyone's really aligned on the core message, the core audience, the core, ultimately, what are we really providing?

What problem are we solving and what success are we allowing people to experience? Like it just. It feels good. It's not just about this job. It's about this bigger story and this bigger, um, needle that we're moving for customers or clients. Hello, audience. How you've handled balance? How I handle balance?

Yeah. It sounds like you've got it nailed now. If you're taking a month off and, you know, heading to new places. Yeah, um, I have a lake house that is about an hour from Portland, Oregon. And I go out there like a couple times a month. Um, I think with, I have a seven [00:36:00] year old child. And so since I had him balance has looked very, very different than it did prior to that.

Um, so. I feel like, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say I get the rest that I, that sometimes I crave, like on the weekends. Sometimes I feel like my job is like just the joyful, easy. Part of my life and the weekends kind of running around and entertaining a seven year old can feel harder honestly, but the way I Keep balance is I block off like every Wednesday.

I block off just like it's busy nobody can book anything and like having those Days baked in really helped me feel more spacious and not like I'm going from call to call to [00:37:00] call. Um, it's been a really nice way to break up the week. Um, getting out of town has always been helpful. And then I am, I am like a ninja.

When it comes to sleep, I, my kid goes to bed at 830 on the dot and I'm pretty much asleep between nine and nine thirty every night. And when you get good sleep, you can literally do anything in the whole wide world. Totally agree. Yep. Yeah. You don't want to see me in the morning when I've had only four hours sleep, that's for sure.

And how much professional development have you invested in yourself? So much. So much. Yeah. And in 2017, um, I became a story brand guide. That was like the biggest amount I'd ever invested in myself. And that was a 10, 000 investment. And it's been a 5, 000 investment every [00:38:00] year after that. And then I would say my other biggest investment was with a company called Peaceful Profits, and it's.

It's been, I invested with them 75, 000 and it was the best money I've ever spent. It was really great. Um, you know, as business owners, we really are inside that bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside and no one's immune to it. Even me, you know, and this is the work that I do.

And so they have been a wonderful, um, perspective point. To look at my business and, and really see the greatest version of myself. And I've, I've stepped into, to that, um, with their guidance and help and encouragement. So for that 75 grand, like, was that for one year and was it like [00:39:00] coaching or any specific part of the business?

Yeah. Um, coaching is part, definitely part of the deliverable. It's for a year. Um, part of the deliverable is they build, um, they build a funnel. For you and so they build that funnel and they manage your ads in addition to that It's like a really robust deliverable, but i've more than made up for it just by the coaching that they've provided for me We haven't even started the funnel yet because There are a lot of different components, the book being one of them, but the book is also part of that funnel.

Um, so, it's been a year of really generating a lot of trainings, and Deliverables, um, and stepping into like a, a greater version of myself. Um, so all that to [00:40:00] say, I've more than recouped my investment and we haven't even started the funnel yet. That's great. So you've had coaches, have you had mentors along the way?

I mean, I would consider my coach at Peaceful, Peaceful Profits, a mentor for sure. Um, I had an incredible mentor. When I just started out in my career, when I had an internship, um, his name is Keith Buckley, he took the time to just teach me like it real on real world projects and, um, that mentorship was.

Really extraordinary. I consider Donald Miller to be a really important mentor to me in my life. Um, and he's just a steady source of like the touchstone, what's important, what matters. Um, [00:41:00] so I've been really fortunate in that way. Do you have a board of directors or advisors?

All right, Kris, one of our final five questions. What do you think's the hardest thing in growing a small business? The hardest thing in growing a small business is figuring out how to talk about your business. Like it's really hard to talk about your own business clearly because of that bottle effect.

You're inside the bottle. You can only read the, you can't read the label from inside the bottle, but also the curse of knowledge, which is really just, you've been in your industry long enough. That you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so we tend to talk over people or use industry lingo and we lose an opportunity for connection.

Um, and so those two things are going on all the time for every business owner. And they're really hard to overcome [00:42:00] if you're trying to figure it out yourself. And. I have yet to meet a business owner who isn't struggling with this, and what's confusing about it is that people think if I just keep working at it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna solve this problem, I'm gonna be able to figure this out.

And because it's not a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Um. I love to let my clients off the hook and say, this is nothing to do with writing. This is about perspective and you could work on this another three years, but. You know, you're, you're, it's, you're not going to make the progress because you're not able to come at your business with fresh eyes and, um, and an expertise in story to really, to really piece together what is the magic and the golden thread in your story that's going to truly attract those ideal clients.

Favourite business book, which has helped you the most [00:43:00] building a story brand. Yeah. I knew you were going to say that. Yep. Yep. Shocker. It's definitely my top 10. Yeah. Any great podcasts, online learning tools you use for your own professional development. Um, I mean, I, I am a big fan of like marketing made simple podcast.

Um, I'm a, I'm listening to podcasts all the time. Um, but I'm often listening to like more story driven podcasts. Like I love ghost stories. I love like, you know, haunted stories, stuff like that. So I'm, I'm big into, um. Um, storytelling, but the business, the business podcasts I listen to are mostly marketing made simple.

I'm just, sorry, just pause for a second. I'm just looking up a book. Here we go. Have you read Matthew Dick's book story, story, sell story worth to [00:44:00] grow your business? Nope. It's a great book. I'm about halfway through it now. I'll send that to you. I'm right. Is it stories? S T O R I E S sell. Yes, that's it.

Okay. I'm writing it down. I'll shoot you a link anyway. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Okay

one tool You'd recommend to help grow a small business Mmm a tool I'd recommend to grow a small business Um, I think the most powerful tool that you can create for your business is your website And you don't need anything fancy. I'm a big fan of like cloud builder websites. So just get on Wix or Squarespace or Kajabi and keep it simple, but you've got to get something online and I believe the.

Really your website is the center of your marketing universe. So [00:45:00] when you, you know, when you are marketing point, everybody and everything to the website, knowing that that website is set up to sell and really convert new clients. Um, so. I think it's twofold. Number one, I guess the tool would be like a Wix or Weebly or Squarespace.

And the real tool would be to have a website. Finally, my favorite question. What would you tell yourself on day one of starting out 23 years ago?

Focus on the things that you really enjoy doing and pay attention to the clients that You really enjoy working with and just say no to all the rest. Um, that would have saved me a lot of, you know, frustration, I guess, and, uh, a lot of time. [00:46:00] Right. Thanks so much for your time today, Kris. Really enjoyed our chat.

Congratulations on the growth, particularly over the last 12 months, 384 percent growth starting out on your own, our team of five helping, um, solo and small business owners get their messaging right. Mainly through stories and terrific work. Thank you.