How to Write Compelling Website Copy That Sells For You The Confident Woman Podcast, with Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Hey there and welcome to the Confident Woman Podcast. I'm

your host Rachel Brooks. Join me as a sit down with co-host, friends, and

carefully curated guests as we talk about all the things that empower you to

become your best, most confident self so you can step boldly into who you were

created to be, the confident woman. Let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:24):

Welcome back to another episode of the Confident Woman

Podcast. Today we have with us Chris Jones. Chris Jones is a StoryBrand guide

and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by StoryBrand founder Donald Miller

himself. And with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her

belt, she's extremely passionate about helping self-employed women get website

copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do

best. So welcome. Chris, tell us a little bit more about you. Oh, I'm excited

about today's conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:01):

Yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to chatting with

you. Yeah, so essentially I live in Portland, Oregon, and I have been doing

this work of marketing for 20 years now, which is kind of nutty to even think

about, but I'm very passionate about it because I am incredibly inspired by

creating freedom. And I love the freedom that being self-employed has created

for my own life, and I want that for others who are interested in dipping their

toe in to entrepreneurship or being self-employed. I just think it's a

beautiful path and I love to support people in that journey. When I started

working around 20 years ago, I really focused on brand and branding and design,

and that eventually evolved into website design, and that was really my sole

focus. But through the years I recognized that branding and design don't work

unless your messaging works.

Speaker 3 (02:12):

And so I really went on a mission to crack the code behind

what makes a story, what makes website copy work, how do you talk about your

own business in a way that gets other people really excited to work with you?

And what happened was I eventually became a StoryBrand certified guide, and

prior to that though, I would have clients come to me wanting me to build them

a website and they would just pull their hair out trying to write their own

copy. It was truly torture and it would disrupt the timeline of the project. It

would cause them so much grief and pain. And I was just over it. I'm like, I'm

not willing to let my clients struggle like this anymore, so let's figure it

out. And through learning about the book, building a StoryBrand, and also just

diving really, really deep into everything around how to tell a good story, I

evolved my business into really focusing on not only helping entrepreneurs

craft a clear message, but to create a message that's really aligned with who

they are and to do it, to be able to do it in 2.5 hours flat.

Speaker 3 (03:38):

And this process doesn't leave anybody to do it on their

own, which I think is the hardest part. We're just so close to our own selves

and our own business. It's just really hard to talk about yourself. We're just

too close to it.

Speaker 2 (03:52):

Yeah, I was just going to say that too. And I was just

thinking, I actually just did a full relaunch on my website and I had to

encounter that it was start writing about yourself and you're like, how do you

sum it up in the three spaces that are available? Because a website is so

limited. And it's kind of funny that you had just mentioned, I literally just

walked through this in the past couple of weeks, and I think it's so important

to really take that step back as you were saying, how do we get to that point

where we could see disconnect the personal from the professional side, so you

can see it from a different vantage point. And I know that with StoryBrand,

that's what they do. It's the work that's really extracting that story that's

inside of you and your message or personal experience or what it is and how it

tailors to that product or service that you offer. And so I'm curious to know

how to write compelling copy that sells in two and a half hours flat. Tell me

more about that. Because like I said, I was about to write it to rip my hair

out.

Speaker 3 (05:01):

I mean, there's nothing worse than just staring at a blank

screen going, what? I can't find the right words. Exactly. I want to start by

just sharing and letting your audience off the hook around how hard it is to

write for yourself and why that is. So this is something I call the bottle

effect. And essentially when we are our own business, it's like we're inside of

a bottle trying to read a label that can only be read from the outside of the

bottle. So I think a lot of us are like, well, if I just persevere, I keep

trying or I push my way through and it's like it feels impossible because it is

impossible to put yourself outside of the bottle. And it's very hard to read

that label clearly from inside the bottle. So that's really the first thing

that we all deal as business owners.

Speaker 3 (05:58):

And then the second one is the curse of knowledge. So if

you've been in your industry for any amount of years, you are an expert at it

and you've really forgotten what it's like to not know what. And so you start

communicating with people in a way that they, as if they understand the nuances

of your industry, and yet someone new to you doesn't know that yet. And so it's

really hard to write in a way that's simple and clear, and these two things are

both going on at the same time, which is why we want to pull our hair out when

we write our own copy. So story brand's amazing. I highly recommend everybody

get the book, everybody should read it if you're really wanting to delve deep

into story and what creates a story. But reading the book doesn't really solve

that problem of being inside the bottle and needing somebody to be outside the

bottle.

Speaker 3 (06:59):

And the struggle that I have observed over many, many,

many years is that number one, people try and write their own copy and it's

just torture. And then number two, they muster up enough money and sometimes a

lot of money, sometimes it's like $10,000 for a web page and they hire a

copywriter to write it for them. And that copywriter goes off and writes in the

silo, they're doing their best job, but their voice is not your voice. So when

you get the copy back, it just feels off. It just doesn't feel like your voice.

It just doesn't integrate with the nuances of your industry. And so when you

already don't have enough time, it ends up taking more time than if you were to

write it yourself because the back and forth and the revisions and the

revisions. And so it's just a giant pickle that we all get in when we're trying

to create our own website.

Speaker 3 (08:03):

And really the way out of that situation is through

collaborative copywriting. And that is the offer that's pretty much the main

offer that I do with my clients. And it happens in two hours, two and a half

hours flat because I know how to ask the right questions that are going to

extract the right information out, and then we really do it collaboratively. So

then you're not every step of the way that it's really aligned with your voice

and yet you've got an expert with you by your side to make sure that the

strategy is there and to help get rid of all the noise and keep only what's

essential for your story

Speaker 2 (08:55):

Story. Oh my goodness, that's so helpful what you just

said, having that collaborative effort and for personal experience and being on

both sides, it's like I'm in that bottle and I'm also trying to write it, which

I know is a big old mass. And then also taking that time intentionally to step

out. And even if it's not as personally close to me, but yet it's an extension

off of me or something that's still related or associated with me, we still

don't have that clarity that it would be if you had somebody who is skilled in

that department to really extract that, as you said. And then on the other side

of the coin is kind of that aspect where if you shared with whoever's writing

your copy along the lines of what you're looking for, sometimes they take that

as a matter of fact, here it is, those were the five points, and sometimes they

don't really polish it. So like you said, it feels off. It's missed the mark

because you want somebody that understands those topics to a degree that they

can enhance upon. And so does these five things, and it's the kind of meat and

potatoes aspect of it. And sometimes if you're too close to it, you get the

meat potatoes, the side dishes, the dessert and the Togo boxes a little bit too

Speaker 3 (10:09):

Much,

Speaker 2 (10:12):

And you're like, oh, I just came for the meat and

potatoes. But from personal experience, I am kind of on both sides of those

fences, so I can really resonate a lot of the pain points that you had just

talked about. And also just when you tell me that two and a half hours flat,

the pain point to me is like, whoa, how is this possible? So I'm curious to

know, what do you think is that most important thing that comes to creating

copy around the story brand? So how is that possible?

Speaker 3 (10:42):

Yeah, okay. Well, essentially I'll start by sharing the

fundamentals of every story you've ever read, every movie you've ever watched,

they all have essentially the same recipe. And we use that same formula in our

website, and I'll talk through that next. But the formula for creating a really

compelling story is this, A hero has a problem. So number one, a hero has a

problem. Number two, that hero meets a guide with a solution. And number three,

the hero finds success. So I'm going to repeat it one more time just so you

kind of get it into your memory. Number one, a hero has a problem and the key

to remember here is that you're not the hero. Your clients is the hero. And

then that hero meets a guide with the solution. You are the guide as the

business owner. And then number three, the hero finds success. So as the guide,

we really help them envision what success looks like and remind them that the

way and this what's possible for you after you solve this problem.

Speaker 2 (11:57):

I like that. And I feel like what you just said, the

formula is applicable, and if anyone's watched movies or read books, that makes

total sense. It's like you just clicked it all together and you being the owner

of your brand, how different than would your brand be in those case scenarios?

So now it's like the books to the movies to the business, I love that.

Speaker 3 (12:23):

And the thing that I see out there just 99% of the time,

most people get this wrong, and it's just purely because it's unintentional.

Everybody is doing their best and they're trying to write copy for their own

website and they're thinking, what the heck do I talk about? I guess I should

talk about me. This is my website. And what I want to share with you today is

to kind of think about that differently. So what we really want to do is

instead of telling our story, we want to invite our client into a narrative

with us where they're the hero of the story and we are the guide in the story.

And if you watch any movie, you'll see that that hero, the movie begins with a

hero with a problem. The guide doesn't even enter into the story until about 20

minutes into the movie or maybe 50 pages into the book.

Speaker 3 (13:21):

So this is kind of a load off for a lot of business owners

to recognize like, oh, this isn't all about me. If I really hone in on my

hero's problems, so my client's problems, then they're going to feel seen,

they're going to feel heard, they're going to feel connected with me. And the

more we articulate their problem and the struggle that they're going through

immediately they think that we are the best ones to solve it. So all of a

sudden we start building trust and connection. And we haven't even talked about

ourself yet. We've only talked about the hero and their problem. And so it's

just such a relief when you really implement this formula because it just

becomes so much easier to write and it becomes so much more enjoyable to write

too.

Speaker 2 (14:19):

And like you said, it lets you off the hook and it's like

how many times do we sit down, not even just a website copy, but our social

media posts or just an email or something like that. We sometimes might

overthink it or under deliver because we're not putting ourselves in this

step-by-step kind of guidance to get that individual to recognize that whether

it's you that's the solution or the product or the service, or maybe a

collaboration, whoever that is, you want to position yourself as I have the answer

to your struggles or problems or pain points, whatever that may be. And then

using those conversations or the verbiage in your copy to translate that in

hopes that individual is like, this is the answer that I've been looking for

and I need to buy or hire or talk or whatever that call to action or that

transaction happens to be is putting yourself in the situation of that

individual.

Speaker 3 (15:18):

Right? Yeah, I think you make a really, really good point.

I do this mostly for people on their website, but the formula applies to

literally every piece of copy you write, every email you put out there, every

social media post that you create, every profile that you fill in on your

social media or LinkedIn, it works for everything. And that's why it's so

incredibly powerful. And the other thing it does is that it just does the work

for you of selling, right? You don't have to sell so hard because you're using

the words and allowing them to do the work for you.

Speaker 2 (16:03):

Yeah, it's very much so. And it's like if you just kind

hit the nail on the head with your messaging, then it delivers. I love that. I

guess going back a little bit to where you were saying being in the bottle,

trying to read the label a little bit too close, and correct me if I'm wrong

because either experienced it or have witnessed this in some of the ladies that

I've worked with as well. It's like when you ask 'em, well, what is the problem

you're trying to solve? Sometimes it's even hard to sum that up into one thing,

right? Because when we look at it from that perspective, there's one thing that

triggers this thing, but it ties in with that thing and it's going to fall. So

all these things feel connected. Do you help extract that also so that it's very

crystal clear on that message that's tailored to the campaigns or the marketing

plan to launch that product or service or whatever that is?

Speaker 3 (17:01):

Absolutely. That is part of the process. I mean, when we

try and do this work alone, we fumble around, we second guess ourselves, we

edit, edit, we write, we type, we delete, we type, we delete. And what I do is

help guide you and really do the heavy lifting for you. So you might write down

three things or might share with me three things, and I'll say, ah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. That third one, that's the one. And what we really want to remember too

is that we want to meet your client where they are. So as experts, we know what

their fundamental problems are, and sometimes they're different than what our

client comes to us with. So Sally might come to you and say, this is my

problem. And you'll say, okay, I get it, I hear you. But really her deeper

problem is that she doesn't have a marketing plan or whatever it is. So we

don't want to muddy the waters there. We just want to say in their words, what

are the problems when you get on the phone with them that they share with you?

And that kind of helps simplify that answer.

Speaker 2 (18:22):

Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. I mean, I've kind of

been on both sides and I was like, ah, okay. So yes. And so even just on the

conversing side, like you had said, when our clients come to us and they're

like, okay, but this is X, Y, and Z, and you're like, okay. And so it's kind of

funny to see yourself step back from that perspective because when we're too

close to our own work, it gets all muddy, like you said. And I always like to

the works that you do, I like to say it's kind of like it's Monet, it's like

our craft. So up close, it's a big old mess, but we have to take that step back

to see the beautiful creations that we just put together. And sometimes when

we're too close to it, that one little stipple or the one little brush stroke

can really change the entirety of that piece that you are working on.

Speaker 2 (19:11):

And so kind of knowing when to push the gas and pull back

and push on the brake is so helpful. And I love that you really take that, as

you said, the heavy lifting and helping your clients to really refine and

define and know when to push and pull back. So that's incredible. And so you

have that formula with the recognizing the story brand part of it, and then

coming out as a step-by-step guide. So what would you say for website copy,

what are some of the must haves for websites? I know we want to put everything

on and sometimes like, listen, we didn't come to here, read about your entire

life. What are some of the must haves, because we always feel like, but it's so

important. What are those sections that you would suggest for every female

expert or small business owner should have?

Speaker 3 (20:04):

Well, you really need to be able to clearly communicate

what you do. So if I were an accountant, I would say I'm an accountant for

people in Portland, Oregon. You don't want to have to make people work to find

out what you do. So that's kind of the first thing you want on the website. You

want to help them answer that question, what does this person do and how's that

going to make my life better? So once you've got that out of the way, then I

would immediately go into what I call the problem section. So articulating that

problem, come up with three bullets that really articulate the problem. So for

my clients, it would be you're stuck because you're not sure what to say when

you open up a document or a social media post. You don't have time to write

this copy yourself.

Speaker 3 (21:00):

And when you hire a copywriter, not only is it expensive,

but it doesn't really feel aligned with your voice. So I would just really get

into the heads and the hearts of your clients and articulate three-ish problems

that they're struggling with. And then one of the most important things that

you can do on your website is really show them what success looks like. So this

was really step three in the formula. So you really want to show them, and it's

interesting, this part people also struggle with because they tend to talk

about the features, here's the benefits of working with me. And again, I just

want to remind you to get out of the hero role and be the guide. A guide

doesn't try and be flashy with features. A guide says, here's where I can take

you and here's possible for you. So for my clients, I'm just using this as an

example because I know it through and through.

Speaker 3 (22:11):

So for my clients, it's not really about the copy, it's

about what can happen in their life once they have copy that's completely

dialed in. So all kinds of things happen. I mean, the most immediate one is

just you start to make more money because people immediately want to work with

you. If you're clear, you're not wasting their time, you're confident, they

understand how you're going to benefit their life. So first off, with clear

copy, you're going to make more money. Secondly, you're going to show up with

more confidence because you not only have a website that's working for you 24

7, but you speak about your business differently. Once you have those words,

you can more confidently communicate what you do. And then the third thing that

happens is you just get more freedom. You don't waste your time on sales calls

and trying to explain yourself over and over again because you've got tools

that are doing that heavy lifting for you.

Speaker 3 (23:17):

So you've got more time and more freedom, more

flexibility. And I mean, who doesn't want that? So that's just an example of me

showing you as the guide me showing you what's possible for you. And I would

want you to do that same thing for your clients. Show them what's possible. If

back to the bookkeeping thing, if I'm a bookkeeper, what's possible for this

person if their books are completely dialed in, if their taxes are nailed ahead

of schedule, what happens for those people? They don't have to stress about it.

They're not fumbling around trying to figure out their receipts. Maybe they're

more confident with their finances, maybe they have the time to think about

what they want to invest in now that they've got their finances in order. So I

would just encourage you guys to look at the peak of the mountain. What is it,

the peak of the mountain, and ultimately what are they going to get after

engaging with you?

Speaker 2 (24:23):

And I love that you had just mentioned that too. And I

think when we look at sales pages or any of the copies, sometimes we read about

all the things that you can get if you buy the product or services like all the

bells and the whistles, and it's flashy and sounds all well and good because

you want to know like, oh, but if I invest X, Y, and Z, I'm going to get these

bonuses. And those are pretty cool, but yet the bells and the whistles aren't

going to sell because you're just slapping some band-aids on the problems. So

you could sign off on a cast and make it all pretty and stuff, but underneath

you're still got the issues at hand. And so very, very great point there. Is

that how you had said it's about guiding them through the processes so that you

are presenting it in a way that they've already as a reading through your copy,

they're already imagining them walking through the solutions, the steps, and

then at the end is exactly that.

Speaker 2 (25:24):

A bonus like, oh, and I get these things. How cool is

this? I'm up right now, take my credit card. But if I don't really know, but

oh, well, if they got these bonuses, I mean that's cool, but I don't know if

it's worth my credit card. And so at that point, there's that disconnect and

that customer or potential lead would opt out and move on to the next

individual that might be suitable for getting them to that next step. And I

assume that you probably see that quite often, especially if somebody's too close

to their work as we call it here, that they don't really see how they're able

to navigate through the customer's journey if they don't see that with clarity.

Speaker 3 (26:05):

Definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. And you

bring up a good point about the bonus list too, because it's not like you

shouldn't have those things. There is a time and a place for them, but you

really want to earn the trust and establish that connection and also establish

your role as the guide and their role as the hero and help them really

understand how you can make their life better and how you can help them avoid

failure, quite frankly. And once you've done all that, once you've kind of crafted

this story, then of course people do want to dive in a little bit deeper to dot

the i's and cross the T's on some fun bonuses that you're going to offer or

what are maybe some details about the program or the course, but that's really

secondary to the overarching narrative.

Speaker 2 (27:02):

And then on the other side going that StoryBrand route

versus the individual who tries to DIY it then like, okay, I'm just going to

piecemeal this together and do it myself. So what do you think are some of

those pitfalls that somebody who is DIYing it versus somebody who hires out an

expert, what are the pitfalls, what are obviously from having to redo it again

or something like cost effectiveness, when do you think it's time to hire a

professional copywriter to capture your brand story versus keep going to bat

and try to get it right?

Speaker 3 (27:41):

Yeah, I love that question because depending on where you

are in your journey, the answer could vary. But the reality is there are so

many incredible web website builders out there. I mean, that's no mystery,

right? We've got Squarespace and all the things, even Kajabi, they're all very

intuitive and easy to build on, and they have these templates that are kind of

pre-designed for you. And so in many ways they're pretty foolproof. And this is

something that I would say, okay, so if you're going to DIY it build your own

website, but save up the money to collaborate with a writer who knows what

they're doing, whether it's me or somebody else, you cannot get outside of that

bottle without help from somebody else. And that might be a friend or a

neighbor or a family member. But what you really want is somebody who's

familiar with the architecture of storytelling and somebody who can ask you the

right questions.

Speaker 3 (29:00):

And so I really think that if you don't want to spend any

money at all, buy the book, or if you only want to spend $15, buy the book

Building a StoryBrand and then go to clarity with chris.com. And I have a

freebie there. It's how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. It's a

five-ish minute video and I walk you through how to craft your story, and then

I give you an opportunity at the end to schedule a free call with me to get

feedback. So that's really kind of the most affordable way to get familiar with

copy. And then if you're ready to invest, I mean the work that I do, it only

it's 29 97, so it's 2,997. It's ridiculously affordable for what you get. And

essentially that offer is all about you and me collaborating together to craft

your website copy. So it is just working for you, your top sales employee 24 7.

And that's for people who are just like, they're busy, they just need it done

in 2.5 hours flat, and they want it done, but they also really want it to be

aligned and resonate with their own voice.

Speaker 2 (30:30):

That's so good. And so you kind of hit the different

stages that some of us women are in it, whether we're just getting started and

we can only afford to DIY it. And having some of those tools and kind of tips

to get to that point. And it's not saying you can't write your own copy is

eventually as you grow your business, you're going to grow your budget, which

then you want to up uplevel that. And so there's different stages and you

probably don't necessarily recommend, I mean, somebody who's coming on board as

a complete newbie startup, just going all in and hiring out a copywriter, then

technically you haven't even had that experience yet in your business then to

really articulate it, I guess, and to deliver it. And I could be wrong there.

I'm just speaking a little bit from experience and also from, again, what I'm

hearing from some of our ladies is that, do I have to go all in?

Speaker 2 (31:25):

I'm just starting out. I don't have that budget. Can I do

these things on my own? And the answer is yes, absolutely. And as you grow,

you'll realize that you have outgrown your own voice and your own copy and your

own criteria or your own limits, and more importantly your own time. And that's

kind of where you might be on the fence saying, Hey, listen, I really want to

uplevel and if I want to uplevel and grow, I have to uplevel my copy, my

website, my offers, my products and services. And that's where you can bring on

somebody like Chris or before Chris read the book and understand how that kind

of goes. And so there's different stages, and I love that you walk our

listeners through that because you're anyone who's listening can, but I'm not

there, or, oh, I'm there. So what's next?

Speaker 2 (32:12):

And I think it's so important to kind of touch upon that

because you don't have to be ready and you don't have to have everything all

figured out, but just getting started is the number one thing that you can do

today. And so like you said, with your offer firm, you can't go wrong. Go there

and fill it out and discovery call with you. And I mean, could she make it any

more easier? Seriously. So this has been incredible. I mean, you fill out the

form, you do all the stuff and you follow up with you, and then that's where

you get that connection call. And having Chris's feedback, I mean, I see so

much value right there.

Speaker 3 (32:52):

Yeah. And I just want to echo your point that you just

shared, which was the way I heard it was there's nothing more valuable than

just doing the work itself, the work that you're doing. So you can learn about

your clients, you can learn about the type of people you like working with, and

you can learn about the type of work you love doing. So I guarantee you, if you

were just starting literally today that you might write some copy that feels

true for you, and then in a year from now you'll revisit it and you'll be like,

oh, yeah, look, I learned so much like six months in or eight months in, and

now I'm clearer on the people I want to work with, and I'm clearer on the

hurdles that they're wanting to overcome and that you can help them overcome.

So I think sometimes what gets missed in this culture of just entrepreneurship,

and this is what you need to do, is giving yourself the grace of taking six

months to a year of literally just doing the work and feeling your way through

it and feeling the rhythm of the type of work and letting that organically

evolve over time.

Speaker 3 (34:18):

And then coming in and starting to do your copy. You don't

have to go all in right on the get go. Definitely not.

Speaker 2 (34:27):

And probably not advisable either.

Speaker 3 (34:29):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you have the time, you can, but

most of us are pretty busy and there's two free resources that I shared with

you that aren't very time consuming. And then give it some time and then dive

in when you're ready.

Speaker 2 (34:47):

Yeah, absolutely. And you make such a great point there.

If you're just starting out, give yourself that time six months to a year and

kind of almost at that point insert yourself and do some pro bono work because

then you get the hands on experience and before you invest all the money up

front to go out, unless you have a hundred percent certain clarity and the

budget to do so, then you can go. But anyone who's just starting out, and you

might just be like, oh, I'm a hundred percent going all in on my fitness

coaching business. And then you get into the fitness coaching business, you're

like, yeah, this isn't exactly the direction I want to go. I want to tailor

more towards nutrition or mindset or something like that. But if you've already

spent that money upfront, you got to go back and do it again. So that's why

proceed with caution, I guess, would be the advice that I would suggest. And

maybe a little bit from you, Chris, at least just know what you are getting

into.

Speaker 3 (35:43):

Yeah, I dunno if I would say proceed with caution. I would

say dive in and follow your heart and do the work, but have fun with it and

learn and keep iterating. And I guess that's what I want to say is it's an

iterative process, so proceed with caution if you're going to blow a bunch of

money on someone to do it for you and you're just starting for sure, yes,

Speaker 2 (36:10):

That's where my little caution flame going.

Speaker 3 (36:13):

Totally, totally agreed, agreed. And if you're really

excited about what you're about to do and you really want to get good at it and

quickly then learn the fundamentals of story, keep iterating, he going through

my freebie and refining it, do the same freebie every couple months and see how

it evolves and changes over time. And that's probably the most powerful thing

you can do, is to really dive in with both feet and get familiar with how to

tell a compelling story. And then that way you can use it in literally every

aspect of your business.

Speaker 2 (37:00):

So true. And once you really own that story, that story

has power and it will just deliver for you, like you said, running auto

automatically in the background through your website, through your written copy

for websites, social media, emails, whatever that is. And so owning that is so

powerful. And even the story brand itself really encapsulates that because

again, when you're telling that story, it's that connection. And even right

before Chris and I hopped on, I was just telling her about a new term that I

had learned, and it kind of plays off a little bit of the storytelling, but

it's called client telling. And if you are in the service of selling or retail

or e-commerce or any of that, that client telling is similar to the

storytelling. You get to learn the narrative of your clients so that they're

telling you what they're looking for, what they shop the most, how often they

shop, what their frequency, their needs, their expectations are. And so you

learn a lot from your client telling that can be used into your brand

storytelling. And so bringing those two, if you're kind of a little trick that

I just learned, but I don't know if it's been around for a while, but I just

learned it.

Speaker 3 (38:20):

I haven't heard that term before, but I really love it.

And the way I interpret that term, client telling is really positioning your

communication in a way that invites your client into a narrative with you. So

your communication is based on what's important to your client, what do they

care about? And if we do nothing else, that's the most powerful thing that we

can do with our communication is really deeply care about our clients and

communicate to them around the things that they care about and that matter to

them, their dreams, their pains, their struggles, their goals, all of that

stuff that we're all kind of scanning the environment. It's really interesting.

I don't like sharing this fact, but everybody knows it to be true because it

sounds kind of negative. But as humans, we really only care about ourselves. Of

course. We love our family and of course we have friends and we care about

other people, but we're wired to scan the environment around us to figure out

how we can survive and thrive. And that's why our brains turn off when we're

reading copy. That's boring because there's a switch in our head, in our brain

that goes, not helping me survive and thrive off moving on to the next post.

And so when we know that and we understand that our brains are wired to figure

out how we're going to survive and thrive, then you base your communication

with that in mind. It changes everything.

Speaker 2 (40:05):

So good. And that's so true. It is that as much as we

don't want to say, but yeah, we are very self-centered in that the ecosphere

that we're in, we only see things from our own perspective and our own lens. So

that's how it kind of passes through our self filtration system. So we have to

have that center self focal point, but we got to be wise with that intention

behind it too.

Speaker 3 (40:34):

And that's why we've survived and thrived as humans. I

mean, this is why we're the species that we are is because we are wired that

way. So it's not a bad thing, but it's really an eye-opening thing when you

recognize that and you write with that in mind.

Speaker 2 (40:53):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has just been an incredible

conversation, and I know that you've delivered such value from just bringing

some highlights to the bullet points to what to look for, what not to look for,

and all the goods, and of course, the free stuff that you are giving out for

our listeners, and knowing that whether they don't know what they're getting

into or just have some questions, taking that free, your free mini training

series, compelling copy, and knowing that they can click back on a link and

have a conversation with you about it. And so that's incredible because you

don't know until you have that sometimes, like you said, where me, myself, and

I, it's great to have a fresher perspective or somebody who's experienced in

there to help bring in some clarity, some direction, and sometimes just

somebody to kind of help hash out what you're working through.

Speaker 3 (41:48):

Yes, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. So the

freebie is at Clarity with Chris, and my name is with a K, Chris with a K,

clarity with chris.com. And then you can also check out my

offer@reddoordesigns.com. It's red door designs.com, and I'll walk you through

the process.

Speaker 2 (42:08):

Awesome. And of course, all that will be in our show

notes. And if anyone wants to follow along with you on your social media, how

can somebody reach out? Is your website your best contact or which one would be

your best?

Speaker 3 (42:19):

Definitely check out my website. That would probably be

the best place to connect with me. And then you can also find me on Instagram

at Red Door Design with no S at the end.

Speaker 2 (42:33):

Awesome. Alright, well, all of that will be in the show

notes below, so be sure to check that out. And I just want to thank you, Chris,

for coming on and just sharing your awesome wisdom and just your experience and

everything that you have delivered for us today. So thanks so much.

Speaker 3 (42:47):

Thank you, Rachel. It was really a pleasure to be here.

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (42:51):

Thank you.

Speaker 1 (42:54):

Hey there. Thank you so much for joining me on today's

episode of The Confident Woman Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode as much

as I did, please be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. Thanks again for

listening.