How to Write Website Copy That Sells in 2.5 Hours Flat

The Art of Online Business Podcast, with Rick Mulready and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:00):

What's up my friends? It's Rick Mulready here, and for

most of 2023, most of last year, I told you about this conversational AI

coaching chatbot that I was creating called Pick Rick's Brain. Well, over the

last several months, I've had a group of Alpha users and more recently a group

of founding members using pick R'S Brain. And with the incredible feedback that

I've been getting about how scary good it is and how helpful it is, it's

finally ready for you to start using pick R'S brain coaching. AI is a custom

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and what we've created a custom conversational AI chatbot that's designed to

give you personalized coaching, mentorship, and guidance from me about your

online business based on my decades worth of knowledge and experience. And you

can get access to this coaching 24 7 as one user, put it of pick Rick's brain

in just over a week.

Speaker 1 (01:05):

I've had it. Help me figure out my ads budget, build my

launch plan, sort out my two offers, come up with a title for my course and my

live launch event, work out the content structure for my live launch, fix my

shiny object syndrome, and then redo the copy for my website focusing around my

one-on-one Coaching. Wow. So I want you to get access to this Piri Spraying

Coaching AI is a super inexpensive monthly membership. So if you ever wanted to

get coaching from me and cost has been prohibitive, this is really accessible

and that's very intentional. So if you want to start getting coaching from me,

mentorship from me through pick Ricks brain coaching ai, just go to rick

mulready.com/ai, coach rick mulready.com/ai coach.

Speaker 2 (01:58):

I started in this industry 20 years ago as a designer, and

so I just was like, everything is design. If you have a great design, you are,

you're golden. And it was, design is so powerful and it's a great way, you can

tell visual stories beautifully as well. But what I eventually learned was that

good design can only get used so far. You have to start with the copy, then

bring that copy to life with really beautiful design and images. So I'm a big

fan of Copy first, so much so that I've kind of shifted my focus solely on the

copy part of it because that's what I'm finding is getting the most results for

my clients.

Speaker 1 (02:54):

What's up, my friends? Welcome to today's episode of The

Art of Online Business podcast. Rick Mulready here, and joining me on today's

show is Kris Jones. Kris is the founder of Red Door Designs and creator of the

copy that sells in two and a half hours flat system. And that's right, we're

talking about copywriting today because this is a topic I think we can all use

help with. I'm raising my hand right now saying that, and I talk about it here

on today's podcast that I've never felt like I've been very good at writing

copy, certainly better than I used to be, but it's never been a strong suit for

me. And so I was introduced to Kris by our mutual friend Neil Williams, who is

one of my accelerator coaches. And you've heard Neil on the podcast here

before. And so she's like, you got to have Kris on the podcast because she's

brilliant with writing copy in such a way that it doesn't have to take us a ton

of time.

Speaker 1 (03:54):

And so she is a StoryBrand guide copywriter. She is been

mentored by Donald Miller, who's the author of Building a StoryBrand. And she

has worked for the likes of some high profile clients like Nike, Jeff Bezos,

but she really likes working with us small business owners, and she has helped

her clients achieve results like increasing revenue by 300%, helping people

scale from 30 K months to 300 K months, charging six times more for the same

service that somebody was charging. And Kris really believes that story is the

most effective way to grow your business. So I asked her to come onto the

podcast here and share her framework, her system for how to write better copy

in a shorter amount of time that gets people to take the action that you want

them to take, not in a manipulative kind of way, not referring to that at all.

Speaker 1 (04:54):

We're talking about writing great copy that people can

connect with and say, yeah, I want that solution from you. And so before we

dive in with Kris, if you'd like my coaching, if you'd like me to help you grow

and scale your business in terms of hey, ethical marketing, growing your team,

becoming the leader slash CEO of your business, creating systems and processes

in your business so that you can work a whole lot less on all about helping you

grow and scale your business while cutting down drastically the number of hours

that you are working on helping you find the leverage points in your business.

If you'd like my help, you're an established online course creator, membership

creator or coach, go over to rick mulready.com/accelerator or you can just

shoot me an email rick@rickmulready.com and we can start talking there. So

without further ado, let's go hang out with Kris Jones. Kris, welcome to the

podcast. How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (05:55):

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (05:58):

Absolutely. So I have to admit, when I first heard about

your promise copy in two and a half hours, I was like, no chance. This is not

something that is possible and this is what you do. Your whole thing is this

concept of no, no, no, it's completely possible to write amazing copy that it

can increase conversions and connect with people, et cetera, just a matter of

hours. Yes, I want to start right there. How is this actually possible?

Speaker 2 (06:37):

Well, I've been in the industry a long time. That helps.

Speaker 2 (06:43):

And so I've done lots of different ways of solving this

problem, but this is really the most streamlined and effective way to do it.

And the beauty is everybody I work with is just busy. They're overwhelmed. They

have a million things on their to-do list and updating their website copy or

creating new website copy is always on there, and it always goes to the bottom

of the list. And I mean, month after month, you've probably been there too. Oh

yeah. And so really what happened was I would be doing these larger website

projects and I would rely on my clients to create their copy and give it to me.

And then that just became really quickly clear that that wasn't working. The

deadlines kept shifting back, and my clients were struggling. They weren't sure

what to write about. So I made it my mission to figure out and crack the code

on how to create really compelling copy story-driven copy, high converting copy

in a way that felt effortless for my clients and really, really fun for me too.

Speaker 2 (08:05):

And so ultimately there have been multiple iterations, but

where we are now with it is just really dialed in. And what happens is I've

created these multiple videos. They're very short, they're like a five minute

speech, and they give you a little bit of context around why I need what I

need. And then I ask you a question point blank, and it's a very simple

question and you answer it, and then you move on to the next video. So through

that process, it takes about 45 minutes, probably an hour tops through that

process, I am really extracting out of you the golden and nuggets of

information that are within you because you're the expert of your, you're the

expert, your clients better than anybody else. So I pull all the good stuff out

of you, and then I take that information and I craft a really beautiful

story-driven wire frame, and that's really fun for me.

Speaker 2 (09:17):

And then we get on a call, we get on a 90 minute call

together where it's a very collaborative process and we go through every

section on your wire frame. And a wire frame is essentially like a blueprint

for your website. It's all the words for your website in black and white, but

it includes the hierarchy of type, the overall flow. It's like it's a very

comprehensive document. And so we go through each section first, I walk them

through the strategy behind every single word that's on the page, and then we go

through and we just collaborate together. Does this feel like your voice? And

through the questions that I've originally asked you, I'm able to capture your

voice. I can tell by the way you're talking in your answers. So,

Speaker 1 (10:11):

Which is a hard thing to do.

Speaker 2 (10:13):

It's really hard to do. I mean, it's really kind of

impossible to do when you hire a copywriter to go away and write for you in a

silo. I was talking to somebody earlier today who had paid kind of a ridiculous

amount of money to hire a copywriter, and then it just was off the mark. And

then they spent days and weeks revising feedback, revising feedback, and

ultimately they ended up with copy that this woman essentially wrote herself.

And so I've heard that story so many times, and it's painful because you've

spent the money, because you don't have the time to do it yourself, and then

you end up actually doing both. You do it yourself, you spend a bunch of time

on it and you're out the money. So that's why I think really the key is that

collaborative piece. I think that that 90 minutes of collaboration where you

really understand why things need to be exactly what's where and why, and then

we can really get into the nitty-gritty about the words and the voice. And so

by the end of that 90 minutes, everybody is just so excited, feeling so good,

they're crossing it off their list finally, and everyone's happy. It's great.

It's really, really, really fun.

Speaker 1 (11:39):

So when we say, when you're saying website copy, are we

talking homepage, sales page about page? None of those, all the above. What are

we talking

Speaker 2 (11:52):

About? Essentially, you pick your page. So yeah, about

half the people that I work with, I would say the majority of people I work

with pick their homepage, but my homepage is so comprehensive that it includes

all the other pages. Typically, I prefer a longer scrolling page versus having

to navigate and bounce around from page to page on a website. So I like to

anticipate what the reader's going to be asking and what information they're

wanting as they're scrolling down the page. So you don't really need an about

page because we integrate that into the homepage and you don't really need a

services page because we integrate that into the homepage. You certainly can

have that. And if you want to go deeper into your services, that's great. Or if

you want to have a page that's just about you and your background and goes into

that in a deeper way, of course you can add to that. But my goal and what tends

to happen is that people don't need to go to any other pages because by the

time they've scrolled through that homepage, they're ready to book a call with

you. It's like a first coffee date. You've had that coffee date, and they're

like, okay, I want to have another date with you.

Speaker 3 (13:12):

It's like the one page website

Speaker 2 (13:15):

Kind of. Yeah, I mean, I love the idea of a one page

website. I mean, fundamentally, you end up needing a couple more pages, but I

think I like to call it a heavy lifting homepage because it does all the heavy

lifting and it operates as this 24 7 sales employee for you while you're doing

what you love.

Speaker 3 (13:42):

We'll get right back to the episode in a moment. What if

we could eavesdrop on private conversations of some amazing experts in the

online business space and in the process uncover revenue generating insights

and tips and ideas from 'em when it comes to some of their most successful

launches? What if you could ask them questions like, Hey, what flopped? What

would you change next time and what would you absolutely do more of? Well, I

want to invite you to sign up for a free audio event that my friend Brenna

McGowan is doing, and it's called Behind the Launch. She's been a guest here on

this podcast already twice now. So you're going to hear short, intimate

conversations with industry experts who pull back the curtain on their last

launch, their latest launch, and also, I'm super grateful to be part of this

small group of experts for behind the launch.

Speaker 3 (14:34):

I'm going to share with you the Facebook ads strategy that

recently has worked best as I run ads for my clients. A big goal of Brenna's

with this free audio event is to dispel this idea, this notion that people who

have a successful launches never ever struggle behind the scenes because we

absolutely do. Or they don't have to test out new ideas and iterate over time

or anything like that because we do have to do those things. And as a result of

listening to these conversations, you're going to be pumped and super confident

because you'll have a proven path to make more sales the next time you launch.

You'll have a reality-based approach to launching that works without the

pressure to send a bazillion emails and without the need to show up on

Instagram like three times a day. Yes, please. I'm excited raising my hand

right here.

Speaker 3 (15:26):

Can't wait to hear some of the other industry experts

speaking during this free event. And so again, this is a free audio event, but

when you register by February 5th, you can get access to the private Facebook

community and you get to listen to recaps and real-time interviews where you

can ask questions and get more launch inspiration and strategy. So to sign up

for this free audio event, just go to behind the launch, I put a link for it in

the show notes, so behind the launch, all one word Co. That's alright. Let's

get back to today's episode.

Speaker 1 (16:10):

So I would assume that you do this on your own website.

Speaker 2 (16:14):

I do.

Speaker 1 (16:15):

Okay. So what is the URL? Because I want people to be able

to, when they finish listening to this right now, they go check this out to see

an example of what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (16:25):

Yeah, definitely. So my website is red door designs.com

with an S at the end and two d's in the middle. So red door designs.com.

Speaker 1 (16:36):

Okay, cool. Yeah, so you all go check out Kris's website.

I'm going to do that after to check out to see the example of this because at

the time we're recording this here in the middle of November, we are going

through another website design redesign, and because my site right now, as nice

as it looks, it is not easy to navigate. It is very confusing. Not only do I

think that, but I've gotten that feedback a lot and it's not just like I want

to make it so easy for people to find what they need to find. You mentioned too

that you create this wireframe. I think that this is, and in creating sales

pages over the years and not me, but working with people to help me do that, I

always heard this, I always thought design first, then write the copy. But

every copy I was like, no, no, no, no. You write the copy first and then it

gets designed. So how much of the work that you're doing when you put together

that wire frame, is that actually the design, the page that you're sort of

foreseeing?

Speaker 2 (17:51):

Yeah, that's such a good question. I started in this

industry 20 years ago as a designer, and so I just was like, everything is

design. If you have a great design, you are golden. And it was, design is so

powerful and it's a great way, you can tell visual stories beautifully as well.

But what I eventually learned was that good design can only get used so far.

You have to start with the copy, then bring that copy to life with really

beautiful design and images. So I'm a big fan of copy first, so much so that

I've kind of shifted my focus solely on the copy part of it because that's what

I'm finding is getting the most results for my clients. So the wire frame is, I

would say I would really liken it to a blueprint that an architect might create

for a home builder.

Speaker 2 (18:55):

You wouldn't want to hire a home builder to build your

house without architectural blueprints, and that's really what this is. It

shows you the order of things. It's not the design I tell my clients, don't get

caught up on the font that I've used. No, I intentionally don't include a bunch

of color or anything because if your words aren't working then on your homepage

or on your wireframe, they're never going to work on the design of your

website. So we've got to really look at everything in black and white. I still

think they're really beautiful, a design nerd. So really to me, it's important

that it looks beautiful. And I show very clearly if you were to hand this over

to your designer, they would know where to put an image, an image here that's

roughly this size, and put the bullet points over to the right of that. And

then here's where the headline goes, and here's where the body copy goes,

here's where the button goes, and it should be a bright color. So if you were

to hand it over to your designer, they would have a very, very easy time

translating that into your current website.

Speaker 1 (20:15):

I mean, your framework if you will, is StoryBrand, which

is Donald. So you've learned under Donald, and if I, so what is that? So we

always hear stories sell, right? Yes. This is something that I've talked a lot

about here on the show. I've had other people talk about stories and what I've

shared from my perspective is I don't feel like I'm a very good storyteller and

that I've had people literally this week, today's a Thursday, earlier this

week, people tell me, tell more stories. We want to hear more stories on the

podcast. And so that's something that I'm consciously wanting to do more of

here on the show. How are you incorporating the stories into, say, a homepage

for example, that is serving, as you mentioned before, about page, the services

page, et cetera? How are we using stories in a page like that?

Speaker 2 (21:12):

It can be really confusing because we've grown up hearing

stories. You read to your daughter once upon a time this happened and that

happened. And the formula for those is the same formula for the storytelling

when you're talking about your own business or your marketing. But there's a

couple little mindset shifts or just little tips really, that once you know

them, it changes the way you do it. So essentially every story that you've ever

heard, and this is Donald Miller talks about this, and I am simplifying it even

more than that, but every story you've ever heard or movie begins with a hero

that has a problem they can't solve. And then maybe 20 minutes into the movie

they meet a guide who has the solution and gives them a plan to solve their

problem. Then ultimately that hero towards the end of the movie finds success.

Speaker 2 (22:17):

The beautiful thing is, as the business owner, this

totally lets you off the hook because the hero is kind of the star of the

story, and you're not the hero, you are the guide. Your customer is always the

hero. So the story begins with a hero has who has a problem, and if your

listeners take nothing else away from this, I would say write that down. Always

begin your story with your hero's problem or your customer's problem. What are

they struggling with? If you are telling a story about your own personal life,

talk about a problem that you're going through and then talk about what you

ended up doing. You meet a guide, and that guide might be a book you found or

wisdom that your neighbor shared with you and made you helped you move along in

that journey to solving the problem and then ultimately what you got as an end

result from that. I remember in one of your other podcasts, you were telling

this story about maybe a latte or you're making a coffee or

Speaker 1 (23:34):

My beloved, beloved, I ordered this yesterday at the

coffee shop right down the street from me, and I know all the people that work

there and they know my drink at this point. I walk up and so I start off the

day with straight up Americano I don't do, and then later

Speaker 2 (23:56):

Straight to the veins. Right? Straight to

Speaker 1 (23:58):

The veins. Yeah. Yeah. My wife accidentally ate, drank it

last week or something. She's like, oh my God, it's so strong. And I was like,

is it? So anyway, it is an oat milk latte with honey and cinnamon, and I like

it super hot because otherwise I'll just guzzle it. And I was ordering it at, I

was ordering it at the coffee shop yesterday morning and they were like, I

think I know your drink in there. So they were kind of starting to do it, and

then I said it out loud and I said it, and I was like, oh my God, that sounds

the most high maintenance order ever. And they were like, no, it sounds

delicious. But anyway, yeah, that's what I was talking about.

Speaker 2 (24:41):

So I mean, your personal stories will begin with a

struggle or a problem that you're dealing with, and then you'll navigate

through. You're the hero of that story, but when you're in business, your

customers or your clients are always the hero, and that lets everybody off the

hook. You don't have to talk about yourself. You do a little bit. You talk

about yourself as it relates to your customer and the things that they care

about, but ultimately they just want their problem solved and they want to find

a guide who can solve it.

Speaker 1 (25:17):

So can you give an example there, because I know that as

I'm listening, and I've heard this before conceptually, I think it's easy to

understand, but when I know that so many people, myself included have this,

okay, when if I'm ready to write copy, it's like this block, like, okay, I know

I need to write, start off with the hero, the problem, the hero is my audience,

and then go through that. Can you give sort of off the top of your head an

example?

Speaker 2 (25:49):

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. So there's a retirement

planner that I work with and his story, now, this is the shortest story ever

written, but you'll hear that it contains all the components of a compelling

story. So he would say or write on his website or on social media, many people

over 50 worry that their money won't last them through retirement. That's their

hero problem. And then he would introduce himself as a guide with a solution,

and that would be my proven method, takes the guesswork out of retirement

planning. And then he would, as the guide, he would remind the hero of what's

possible, what kind of success that they can achieve so they can spend with

confidence knowing they'll thrive. So let me read that all together. And so you

can hear the hero with the problem, the guide with the solution, and then the

hero finds success. So many people over 50 worry that their money won't last

them through retirement. My proven method takes the guesswork out of retirement

planning so they can spend with confidence knowing they'll thrive.

Speaker 2 (27:04):

There's a million ways to use this formula. That's one

that's kind of like his company tagline, that he can copy and paste that into

his email signature, into his LinkedIn profile, into all his social media

profiles on his website. But you really take the storytelling formula and you

can use it. You can have kind of your overarching company tagline story, but

lots of people will do this on their services page. So they'll say, okay, I'm

doing a workshop on this that solves this problem. And then they'll create

their own story around that as the description, and people are like, whoa, tell

me more. I'm one in on that. I want that problem solved and this person knows

how to do it.

Speaker 1 (27:54):

What about if the problem, so how do I ask this question?

If you are the audience, you were the audience that you solved the problem for

which you then went and found other people that had the same problem, could you

be the hero in the first part? And then I'm way overcomplicating this, I

realize, but where my brain goes to is, so data, for example, this is something

that I have this conversation with every single member of our accelerator is

like, you've got to know your numbers. And most people don't. People can't

answer, oh, I got these sales came from over here and I can attribute these

sales here, or This is my profit margin, what have you, right? But the first

time this came up was for myself, I solved my own problem, which how I solve

that is how I'm helping people now. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (29:01):

Completely. And that is the best kind of guide because you

can show up with a level of empathy. You understand their struggle so much

because you've been through it. And so no one's a better guide than somebody

like you who's been through the journey and found success and come out the

other side and now can show other people, Hey, come along with me, I'll show

you how to do it too. That's the best kind of guide. But what you don't want to

do is position yourself as the hero, because you're not the hero. You've

already solved this problem and you know how to do it.

Speaker 1 (29:41):

Okay, I got

Speaker 2 (29:42):

You. Yeah, and when you position yourself as the hero,

there's only room for one hero in every story. So you immediately kick any

potential client into engaging with you. And the other thing I want to share is

that we talk about telling stories and telling stories. You've got to use

story, but really it's not about telling a story, it's about inviting your

clients into a narrative with you. You're inviting them into a story with you

where they play the character of the hero, and you play the character of the

guide because the guide is the strongest character in the story. The hero's

actually the weakest character. They have a problem they don't know how to

solve, and we don't know if they're going to solve it or not. We hope they do,

and they will if they work with you, hopefully. But that's what keeps us to the

end of the movie. If the heroes solved their problem halfway through the movie,

people would get up and leave.

Speaker 1 (30:45):

Right? How much of this framework consists of audience

research, learning more about the audience, where they currently are because

things shift, et cetera, et cetera?

Speaker 2 (31:00):

Yeah, I mean, it's critical to know your audience. It

depends what type of research that you want to do. I mean, the type of research

that I do about my audience is really just working day after day after day for

many years with this particular audience. But you can also go onto Amazon and

find a book that your audience is really attracted to, and then read the

reviews and you can get lots of information and insight there as well about

their struggle. That's really what you want to hone in on, is if you can

articulate their problem, I should say it this way, the better you can

articulate their problem, the more quickly they will automatically assume that

you're the one to solve it.

Speaker 1 (31:49):

It's also, it's kind of like when you said the financial

planning or retirement planning example before that came up for me immediately

was that's a hook for a video, for example, or an ad, get their attention and

then go into solving the problem or establishing credibility, giving some

teaching there and then having some sort of call to action.

Speaker 2 (32:19):

Yes. Yeah, every story, I mean, a hook can be lots of

different things, but one type of hook could be starting with the problem, and

if you start everything that you write with the problem that your customers are

experiencing, they're going to be pulled in because our brains find them just

100% irresistible. We cannot help but be pulled in and find out is it going to

get solved? How's it going to be solved? It's really psychology fundamentally.

Speaker 1 (32:54):

So there's some things that in your bio that I kind of

want to dive into a little bit where you're talking about helping people scale

from 30 K months to 300. So 10 X-ing their monthly revenue, also charging six

times more for the exact same service. How are those things happening within

the framework that we're talking about?

Speaker 2 (33:20):

Well, this framework is a very important part of an

overall recipe for that. So this is not the one and only piece, but the client

that was able to charge six times what he was prior to working with me, that

was a branding overhaul. So we got him new photography, really professional

photography, and we rebranded his logo, we updated his tagline, we recrafted

his homepage and his entire website, it was kind of the full meal deal that he

did, but the storytelling was the golden thread that wove throughout all those

materials. So the words on his business card aligned with the words on his

website, aligned with the words on his LinkedIn profile. And what I loved

hearing from him the most was he went to a trade show shortly thereafter, and

he goes, I actually walked differently. There was a confidence that he had when

he knew he had the right words of what to say, and he knew very clearly the

problem that he solved and how to communicate it.

Speaker 1 (34:44):

What are some things that we can do? Those of us listening

right now, everybody listening right now, what are some things that we can do

to ask ourselves? What kind of questions can we ask ourselves to try to get

these types of things out of ourselves to maybe start this process for

ourselves?

Speaker 2 (35:06):

Well, I do have a freebie that does walk you through this

process. So there's a five minute video and a Google worksheet that comes with

it that literally will prompt you with each of these things. So don't feel like

you have to write this down or remember it. It's there for you. But the first

thing to do is to brain dump, have a document called my storytelling or

whatever you want to call it, and then just brain dump all the problems that

your customers share with you. And you want to do it in their words, not in

your words. We really want to meet them where they are and not talk over their

heads or anything like that. We just keep it conversational. When you have a

call with a potential client, ask them, what are your biggest struggles? What's

keeping you up at night?

Speaker 2 (36:00):

And write down the words that they tell you and just keep

an ongoing brain dump document. And the more you have, if you have 10 or 20

problems that your customers face, that right there is a recipe for 10 or 20

social media posts. You can start with that problem and then talk about your

solution. And you don't have to get into the nitty gritty about you want to

tell them what you do, not how you do it. So for the Retirement planner was my

proven method, takes the guesswork out of retirement planning simple. He

doesn't get into all the detail. I just was like, I remove the guesswork. And

so you want to really brain dump the problems. And then in the worksheet that

you can download from me, there's an area there where you can brainstorm three

different solutions or three different ways that you solve this problem.

Speaker 2 (37:05):

And then you really want to go heavy on success. So what

is their life like going to be after they work with you? What is that top of

the mountain peak point? What are they going to experience? What kind of

freedom are they going to have? Or what kind of peace of mind are they going to

have? Or if you're a chiropractor, are they going to be able to climb mountains

and play with their grandkids or whatever it might be? But really, I

continually encourage people to really think big when it comes to the success

portion of it. And then you've got this brand bible there of problems,

solutions, and success. And if you focus all your communications in this way,

people will engage. They can't help but engage.

Speaker 1 (38:01):

So let's just say we brain dump nine different, nine

different things, and then we've got three different ways to solve each of

those problems and then what it's like afterwards, success, what that could

look like after and feelings and all that stuff. If we're writing a sales page,

are we incorporating all of those things in there or are we taking the top

things or where do we draw the line?

Speaker 2 (38:32):

Yeah, definitely the top things. So on a sales page, you

want to weave things through the page. People need to hear things multiple

times before they can commit it to memory. So there's nothing wrong with

repeating the same notes over and over again. But yeah, pick the top five and

narrow it down to that kind of streamline the communication for a sales page, I

would do that. But if it's social media, you can just, the more the better. It

depends on how often you want to post. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (39:11):

So brain dump all the problems customers have in their

words as much as possible,

Speaker 1 (39:19):

And ways to get those words. We often overlook the obvious

of get on a quick call with them, look at what they're talking about in, if you

have a group, look at what words they're using, look at other Facebook groups.

Look at like you mentioned Kris on Amazon reviews for books, and there's lots

of different ways that we could look at what actual words that people are

using. Then three different ways to solve the problem, and then what is their

life? What can their life be like after the solution in terms of what's

possible, feelings, et cetera. I would also assume that that's where we're

using case studies of people that we've worked with that be right.

Speaker 2 (40:00):

Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, as the guide, you want to show

that you have empathy and authority, and part of that authority is showing that

you've solved this problem for other people. So case studies would go under

that piece of authority. I mean, there's more that goes into a sales page than

just this, but this is really the golden thread that streams through your

story, almost like you kind of think of it like a guitar player, someone who

knows how to play guitar, knows how to strum a chord, and they push down the

strings and it's a beautiful chord, and they repeat those notes throughout the

song. Whereas if you don't know how to play the guitar and you strum a chord

and it sounds like crap, you're not going to move toward that person playing

guitar and want to hear more. So it's kind of like music in that way. It's kind

of cool

Speaker 1 (41:08):

When we're doing that because fascinated by this, because

I think you can tell from my questions, I've always struggled with this. I do

not consider myself a good copywriter, and it's something that I do work on.

But just to be honest, from very, very early on in the business, I always hired

copywriters to help me with it because knew that it wasn't a strong suit of

mine, even though it was one of the first things that I learned. I kept hearing

people say, this has been in business nine years now. So 10 years ago, people

were saying, if you don't learn anything, learn how to write copy, then you can

sell anything. But even with that, I still struggle with it all these years.

I'm much better than I was. But if we're brain dumping all the problems, we've

got the three different ways to solve the problem. This is what is possible

afterwards, where are we? If we're taking this sort of framework, putting it

into the hero framework like we're talking about, where are we using the

stories within that? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (42:18):

Yeah, completely. So I'll kind of break down the different

sections of the wire frame. I think that might be helpful. So the very first

section, the header is where you've got about five seconds to just communicate

what you do and how it's going to make their life better. So you could easily

pull that from the story that we just told about the retirement planner. So at

the beginning of the page, it might be, I'm a retirement. Let me think about

this. It's hard to do on the fly. I take the guesswork out of retirement

planning, and that mean that's the problem that they solve. So that might be in

the upper header and they're a retirement planner. They're going to take the

guesswork out of it. Then after that, you want to follow, and you can go to my

website for a good example of this, because I follow this, I believe it, and it

works.

Speaker 2 (43:12):

So then you want to start the story right there with a

problem. So I will often say, are you struggling with, and then three to five

bullets of what they're struggling with. Again, there's so much psychology that

happens just in articulating the problem. Your potential client feels like

they're seen, they feel like they're heard. They feel like, oh, you get me. If

you get me, you get this problem. You're the best one to solve it. And they're

pulled in because they can't not be just how our brains are wired. So they're

like, okay. And then the next section is quickly. We're always, as humans,

we're always scanning the environment. What's in this for me? How am I going to

benefit from this? So I follow that section with three really beautiful

important benefits that they're going to experience after we're done working

together. A lot of people put features here, which again, that would put me as

the hero instead of my client.

Speaker 2 (44:17):

You don't want to put features there. You want to say,

this is what you are going to experience after you work with me as a result of

working with me. And so you really want to make that clear. And then you move

into, it's kind of like you're earning their trust and you're earning a

connection with them, and you're letting them know, this is going to be worth

your time. I get your problem and I can help you reach really wonderful

results. And then you've earned the right to step in and share a little bit more

about yourself as the guide. And so at that point, you step in with empathy and

authority and tell them that this is how I solve the problem. This is what I

know about you, and this is why I've spent many years figuring out how to solve

this problem and working with people like you.

Speaker 2 (45:16):

Here's how I do it. So every guide gives their hero a

plan, and this is what you need to do next. So you have a clear call to action,

but you really want to break down a three step plan. That's critical, very

important part like, well, if you're going to guide me and you can solve this

problem, then what do you want me to do next? And so you want to break it down,

even if what you do might take 20 steps, you just want to really simplify it,

already overwhelmed when they get to the website. I mean, most people are just

inundated with information and overwhelmed. So what to do next? Schedule a

call. We'll work together and create a custom plan or whatever your way of

solving that problem is. And then step three is typically the third part of

that step. It might be something wonderful that they're going to experience.

Speaker 1 (46:12):

So as you were talking about that, I'm looking at your

site, just the homepage here. So just to reiterate, Kris's or else it's red

door design.com. And what I notice about this, not only does it model what you

just described, but I actually look at this and I think that it doesn't have a

lot of copy, but you're telling the story of everything that you just said through.

I think it's very, very clear, and it's not a lot of words. I think that you're

conveying everything. And I like clean websites, very easy to follow, thus why

we're redesigning my site. But what I mean, I see you can focus on what you do

best and I'll make you look good doing it. And then you've got three paragraphs

here. I feel like this is the most text in one section except for here are

three ways to work with me like you just described. And so this is appealing to

me because it's the simplicity of it, and I'm always talking about simplicity

scales.

Speaker 2 (47:23):

Yes. And it's the way people are digesting information now

on mobile phones and just our attention spans. If you can't do the heavy

lifting of simplifying and streamlining your communication with your client,

you're not really earning their trust. Or they'll say, oh, I'll come back to

this when I have more brain energy to concentrate on reading all this copy, and

then they'll never come back. So the gift that I can give to you and your

audience is that you don't have to be good at long format copy. I don't like

long format copy. I like puzzle piecing, beautiful story-driven copy together.

So it really flows and tells the story, but it doesn't mean you have to sit

down and write paragraphs and paragraphs of text.

Speaker 1 (48:15):

Yeah, I love it. And I think that a lot of people

listening right now just did a big exhale and it's like, oh, okay, this page

doesn't have to be 6,000 words.

Speaker 2 (48:25):

Exactly. Yeah. And you'd be surprised what happens when

you go through that process and make it easy for your people to understand what

you do and how you can help them. It's like it's the gift that keeps on giving

Speaker 1 (48:43):

Kind of like the jelly of the On club from Kristmas

vacation for all of the Kristmas vacation fans. I said that to my wife the

other day, and she's like, what are you talking about? She's never seen that

movie. Anyway, what is the URL Kris for where people can get this PDF download?

Speaker 2 (48:59):

So I have two ways to work with me. One is if you want to

DIY, your own copy and you want to kind of dive deeper into what we've talked

about today, go to clarity with Kris.com and it's a five minute video and

worksheet, and you can create your own version of what we talked about today.

If you are ready for website copy that does the selling for you, and you're

done trying to DIY it, and you just want to check it off your list and be done

with it in 2.5 hours flat, go to red door designs.com/copy.

Speaker 1 (49:40):

Okay, cool. And Kris is with a K, everybody, clarity with Kris.com,

and I'll link all the links up over in the show notes for the episode here

today. I'm fascinated, Kris. Like I said, I keep saying this stuff doesn't come

easy to me, so I'm always like, I'm always trying to learn more about this, and

I know 100% that a lot of the people that I work with in Accelerator, for

example, this is something that's a struggle as well from a writing copy. So

thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise. Is that the best place for

people to go to connect with you or are there other places as well?

Speaker 2 (50:17):

Yeah, that is the best place that you can go, and actually

I offer, if you do the Clarity with Kris download, I offer a free one-on-one 20

minute Clarity call so you can get my eyes on your copy and make sure it's done

right. So that's just a little nugget in

Speaker 1 (50:37):

There. Be careful, Kris. Be careful. I have a very

passionate audience and I've had many other guests do something like that, and

they reach out to me, they're like, holy cow, your audience is amazing, so

Speaker 2 (50:48):

Be careful. No, I love the work and I find it just so much

fun, so I'm all over

Speaker 1 (50:54):

It. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you, Kris. I appreciate

you. Hey, if you happen to know somebody, one of your colleagues or one of your

friends who can benefit from today's episode here with Kris, I would super

appreciate if you shared this episode with them. If you're an Apple podcast,

just click the three little dots next to the name of the episode, and there's a

share episode option right there. If you're listening on Spotify, there's a

share button right there in the episode. Makes it super easy to share both the

podcast and individual episodes with your friends. I almost said friends and

family, your family probably doesn't want to listen to the podcast that you're

listening to. And as always, if you've not yet left a rating and review for the

show or on Apple Podcast, that is still very, very helpful and allows us to

reach more people with what we're trying to help people with here on the show.

Thank you in advance for doing that, and appreciate my friend. Until next time,

be well. I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (51:58):

We'll get back to the episode. The moment you're hearing

me as the host of the Art of Online Business and probably thinking it's really

expensive to work with Kujo because he's the host of the Art of online

business. Actually, no, it's not. It's especially affordable. If your business

is right for ads management, IE, you're already earning somewhere between 150

and $200,000 in annual gross revenue and you want to scale up your business,

you should not be managing your own ads at that point because you as a CEO,

your time would be better spent doing things that only you can do. You don't

want a lack of a team or a lack of an ads manager to constrain your growth,

mainly because with ads management experience, I'm saving you time. You don't

have to figure out all the things, and you don't have to make all the mistakes

that would happen if you managed your own ads. So there is a link in the

podcast show notes below the art of online business.com/ads. Fill out an

application to work with me on ads and have me also be your strategy partner as

far as looking into your funnel, giving you tips and tricks and strategies

about how to optimize your sales page and your lead magnet opt-in page so your

business can do a better job of converting leads into sales. Again, that's in

the show notes below. Let's get back to the episode.