5 Mistakes Most Business Owners Make with Copywriting

The 6 Figure Coach Podcast, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones

Speaker 1 (00:06):

Hey, I'm Neil Williams. I'm a mom, a wife, a master

certified coach, podcaster, and entrepreneur who has ditched the idea that a

four hour work week is somehow required for a successful business. I spent

years overworking, but then something big happened. I figured out how to take

control of my schedule, and when I did, I got way more done and less time and

made more money. After that. I grew a multiple six figure business working 10

hours a week. alo was still in my corporate day job. Since then, I've made it

my mission to teach other coaches how to grow businesses. They love to six

figures in just a few hours a week. If you are ready for full-time, business

success on a very part-time schedule, get ready to find out that success is

easier and faster than you ever thought to be possible right here every week

where I share the strategies, tools, and mindset that build a six figure

business that doesn't require a lot of time or a lot of selling. Welcome to the

Six Figure Coach podcast. Welcome to this episode of the six Figure Coach

Podcast

Speaker 2 (01:12):

Where I'm teaching you how to build a business that you

love in just 10 hours per week. One of my secret weapons for being able to do

that is the guest that I am sharing with you on this week's episode. Her name

is Kris Jones. She is one of my amazing, brilliant 10 K in 10 hour students,

and she's going to be sharing with you how to write copy that sells for you in

two and a half hours. This is amazing. You probably know if you've been on the

online business track for a while or you've been in the online business world

for a while, you know how wildly important it is to be able to write words that

sell for you. Writing copy is one of those skills that we want to be building

on our path to becoming six and seven figure coaches.

Speaker 2 (01:59):

It's a challenging skill for many of us because it's

something unlike anything else that most of us have ever done. But I want to

share Kris with you today so that she can walk you through her process of how

she does this with clients. I think this is going to be a wildly valuable

episode for you. You might want to take notes on this one, and if you're

interested in joining 10 k, 10 hours, I want you to know that Kris is a regular

contributor to that program. So she comes in and she teaches you how to write

copy that sells for you in a very focused way. She's also a regular

contributor. We have a workshop with her every single month. If you are

interested in joining a hundred K Funnel course, this is one of the things that

you get as the piece of 90 day support. You get three workshops with her, and

she is brilliant at taking your words and turning them into copy that makes it

really easy

Speaker 3 (02:58):

And simple and clear for your person to understand what

you do and how you can help them. Please enjoy this episode with Kris Jones.

Welcome, Kris. I'm so excited to have you on the six Figure Coach podcast.

Speaker 4 (03:13):

I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 3 (03:15):

Yeah, so I can't wait for you to tell our listeners all

about what you do and how you help people like us try to get really good at

writing coffee. One of those things that is like, it's a skill we all know we

need to master. We know the benefits of it, but it seems like it's really

challenging for so many of us. So that's what we're going to be diving into

today. And so Kris, could you just start out and tell us who you are and what

you do and a little bit about your story?

Speaker 4 (03:47):

Sure. Yeah. My name is Kris Jones and I have a company

called Red Door Designs. I've been at this for over 20 years, which is crazy to

even think about, but that tells you how much I love my work and how much I

enjoy the freedom of being my own boss. It is the best life that I'd recommend

to anybody who has the courage to go out on their own. So yeah, I've been at it

for 20 years. I've always really had a heart for fellow entrepreneurs because

I'm just, like I said, I enjoy it so much that I want it for everybody around

me. And so I started out my career as a designer and worked for many years

doing that type of work, got into website design and as the internet was

becoming a thing and back when you could have a beautiful looking website and

basically no copy and it would still work for you, there was hardly anyone on

the internet.

Speaker 4 (04:55):

And over the years, I really started to realize my clients

were struggling so much with giving me the copy. So they would give me their

copy and then I would design them their website, and it was the biggest

sticking point in the entire process. They had a hard time, it felt like

homework. It kind of felt impossible to them. And then sometimes I would get

these pages and pages and pages of copy, and other times I'd get next to no

copy. But either way, it was not strategic. So I kept looking for copywriters that

I could partner with to really help my clients essentially, and hired over the

years, a handful of people. I just couldn't find anybody who really aligned

with my minimalistic approach. I have a very less more approach, but I also,

it's important for me to create something that is really going to help my

clients grow their business.

Speaker 4 (06:05):

So eventually I took the bull by the horns and learned how

to tell stories from a psychology standpoint and from a framework standpoint,

how are stories told? And not only that, but how do you tell stories in

marketing? So the fundamentals of story actually stay the same, but there's a

way to do it in marketing that it feels really authentic both to the business

owner and their audience, and it's incredibly effective in attracting the right

clients without being pushy or salesy or cheesy or just, I mean, there's so

many ways that you can go wrong with coffee. But the beautiful thing is that I

found an approach through Donald Miller who's a brilliant marketer, brilliant

writer, and he created a framework called StoryBrand, the StoryBrand Framework.

He wrote a book called Building a StoryBrand, and it resonated with me so

deeply that I jumped on board.

Speaker 4 (07:20):

I basically figured out I mastered, I mastered the

framework. I was on board with this approach before the book even came out. Oh

my gosh, this is really early days when I was just in a room with me and a

couple dozen people and Donald learning the framework, and then he invited me

back to Nashville to deepen my learning because we really clicked, and I've

never looked back for the first couple of years. I kept being like, wow, this

is really effective. This approach really works. Storytelling was kind of the

missing link for my business. And the more clients that I worked with, the more

types of businesses that I worked with, it just kept working. I've still yet to

meet a business or a company, I don't care if you're Nike or if you're an

individual that it is not incredibly effective for.

Speaker 3 (08:25):

And that is why I love what you do so much because those

of us who are entrepreneurs like you all, I have mass respect for anybody who

decides to be an entrepreneur because not only do you have to be good at the

thing that you're an so-called expert in, but you also have all of these skills

to build as a business owner. And one of the things I know this has been

challenging for me, and I think it's challenging for many entrepreneurs, not in

this way, but it is in writing words that are simple and direct and that

resonates with our person. And the way that we talk about this with you, what

you do is writing words that sell writing copy that works, writing compelling

copy. And so I love so much that, and I'm so grateful that you chose to work

with the solopreneur group of people.

Speaker 3 (09:24):

What we really struggle with, we don't necessarily have a

team. We might have a few people, but certainly not like a marketing director

or something like that or a CMO, something like that. And so we're having to

figure that out on our own, which is super challenging. We're going to talk

about that as one of the problems here in just a minute. But I'm so happy that

you have a solution for those of us who are in that camp or we're thinking,

taking on the marketing job and the writing copy job. The reason why I think

there's so much bad copy out there for the group of people that I'm talking

about is because we simply don't believe we have time, nor do we believe we can

do it effectively. So why would we use our time to do that? And when we first

started talking about your offer and you told me that we could construct a

program where you could teach people how to write copy that sells in two and a

half hours, my mind was literally blown in that moment.

Speaker 3 (10:23):

I knew for sure that I was going to buy this program that

you create in because your ideal person, and I knew if this was true, I could

really write copy in two and a half hours. I would like a hundred percent in.

So first of all, I just want to thank you for doing that work and for helping

those of us in this group who struggle with this so much. And I am so excited

that you're here because I wanted to share you and the work that you do with

everybody on this show because it's directly tied to what these people are

working through and the struggles that they have. So I think let's just start

with some of what you've noticed. You've been doing this work for a while and

you're an expert in StoryBrand, which is so interesting because I read Donald

Miller's book four years ago maybe when I was very first starting out, and then

I didn't really do anything with it. I was like, yeah, this makes it, but it

seems like a lot of work, and I don't know that I have time for that, right?

Yeah. So I'd love for you to talk with us a little bit about the common

obstacles or the common mistakes that you see people like me and people who are

writing their own copy make and how you can help them and how you do help them

solve those things. Sure,

Speaker 4 (11:44):

Yeah. Before we dive into that, one thing I want to say is

that if you read building a StoryBrand and you're having a hard time

implementing yourself, you're not alone. There is a big, it's really

challenging. You read the book and you're onboard, you're nodding your head and

you're like, oh, this is so good. It makes sense.

Speaker 3 (12:06):

But

Speaker 4 (12:06):

Bridging that gap between reading the book and actually

being able to write your own copy is it can feel really impossible. And I think

the reason that the program works so well, the program that I'm doing or that

I'm offering is because you are not doing this alone. I'm teaching you how to

do it. So you really kind of learning how to fish or you're learning the

fundamentals of the strategy, but then we actually get to do it together. And

that's why it works. It's because you're not stuck alone on your computer with

a blinking cursor and a blank page. So it's really, in my opinion, kind of the

only way.

Speaker 3 (12:49):

And I think we need, I mean since you brought that up,

let's just go there right now. We were talking about some of this ahead of

time, and I shared with you a few weeks ago a story about a coach who I am not

going to name, but this is a person who is a very well-known individual inside

of my community. And I was talking with her the other day and she was saying

this thing that literally made me curl up and want to die was she had paid

$60,000 for a marketing agency to come in and do some work inside of her

business. So one of the things that they did is they rewrote a sales page, and

the sales page was for her main offer. And after that work was done, it was

like a lot of work on her team and her part plus them, plus a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (13:40):

And the 60,000 wasn't just for that sales page, it was for

lots of other things, but the sales page converted worse after all of that work

was done. And I have, oh my goodness. So I think there's those kinds of horror

stories out there, which kind of, for someone like me, number one, I don't have

$60,000 to go spend on a marketing individual right now, but even so this has

been my experience, even in the amounts that I have invested that having to,

the ideal is someone just goes and writes it for you, that would be dream come

true.

Speaker 4 (14:15):

My

Speaker 3 (14:15):

Experience has been that that is not even possible. So can

you speak to that a little bit in your experience about that?

Speaker 4 (14:21):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's not uncommon for someone to

spend 10 to $20,000 on a single sales page. I mean, that's just,

Speaker 3 (14:32):

It's

Speaker 4 (14:33):

Normal often like industry norm, right? And so the reason

that doesn't work is, number one, a lot of copywriters know some strategy, but

they don't really necessarily know storytelling. But the bigger reason that

it's not very effective is because when you're a solopreneur, you are your

brand, you are your business, and you're sending people to your website, and

you've got to feel good about that. You've got to feel excited about that. And

if your website doesn't sound like you or feel like you or it doesn't resonate

with who you are and what you're about, you kind of cringe a little bit every

time it comes up. And people want your website and you're like, so the reality

is no writer can write the way you write, no writer can go off and work in a

silo and capture your voice and your vibe, and also the nuances of your

industry. I mean, if you've been at this for a while, you really know your

audience and the types of words that they use, the struggles that they have,

and nobody knows that better than you, so you have to be part of the process in

crafting the copy.

Speaker 3 (15:54):

Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I don't think that

copywriters are trying to do a bad job. I just think that the copy that comes

out is ineffective because it's out of alignment for one of two things or both

things that you just said. Either it's none in alignment with you and who you

are and how you want to be in the world and your brand, or it's not what your

people say. It's not the words that they use. It's not the way they think. It's

not the stories they're telling themselves. It's just off base because they

don't know your audience. You do. There's no way that they could have known

that except maybe if they did a ton of research or something and they

interviewed some of your people and got their exact words, maybe that would

work. But I still think there could be a misalignment because it wouldn't be

like your words necessarily your vibe, like you said,

Speaker 4 (16:40):

Right? I mean, it's so much more efficient. You really

know that all the little nuances of your people in your industry. And what's

really ironic is that let's just say you spend 10 to 20 grand on hiring a

writer to save time. You don't want to deal with it, right? You're busy, you've

got 20 things on your list and you just do it for me and get it done. And the

irony is that the back and forth revisions of you trying to communicate to them

why this is off or why this won't work, or what you like about this and don't

like about this, why does this feel, doesn't feel like me, but I don't know why

all that back and forth of revisions takes longer than if you had just, well

not done it yourself. That takes a long time too. If you had done it in a

collaborative way with an experienced guide, you could have done it in two and

a half hours.

Speaker 3 (17:39):

Yeah, we'll be done, which is what I love about what you

do because I've had this experience. I've done both. So one of the things I

think that we do wrong is try to do it ourselves, and I want to speak to that

in just a second, but I've also done the opposite of trying to have someone

write copy for me. And that has not been a positive or I wouldn't say positive,

it just hasn't been an effective experience where I did not same back and

forth, back and forth, back and forth, and you're so frustrated by the end of

it. So the way that you work with your clients, and I know this because I've

already been through your program, is in a collaborative way, so it's not a

done for you or a DIY, it's a done with you, and I was so hooked with that way

of doing copy. I don't know that I will ever do it in any other way.

Speaker 4 (18:26):

So tell us a little

Speaker 3 (18:27):

Bit about that.

Speaker 4 (18:28):

Yeah, I mean, I think just after doing this for so many

years, I kind of cracked the code on how we can do this in an effective way

that's painless for the business owner that's really fast and efficient,

educates them so they really understand strategy moving forward for their own

business. Because once you know story, you can apply it to all kinds of things

and writing for yourself becomes a lot less daunting. So that's kind of how it

came about. It was like, believe me, I've tried the approach where I write it

for you. I've tried to do that for clients. I've hired people to write copy for

me. I mean, I totally get all the pain points that come with both sides of that

coin. And I think it was just literally over years, the trial and error and

then kind of really recognizing, I think boiling it down to how can I really

help people and how can I make it affordable?

Speaker 4 (19:27):

There were a lot of people even in my own community that

really needed help and I could help them, but they couldn't afford to work with

me and that didn't feel good. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to create

something that's really affordable. I can work with those solopreneurs that I

really adore. A lot of magic happened, number one, it just became a fun process

for both parties involved. And number two, what I found, I had worked with

larger companies for many years and what I found in working with the

solopreneurs is number one, these are my people. We're all cut from the same

cloth in many ways. And so that just felt really resonant. The other thing

about it that I think is so extraordinary is that when you don't have a lot of

cooks in the kitchen, your copy stays true to you and the strategy and the

effectiveness of it maintains its integrity. And so what I found working with

larger companies is just that Joe Schmo would take this copy over to the

accounting department and get their feedback on this and that everyone has an

opinion. And what I've crafted is really, and what I think is most effective no

matter who you work with, is really a one-on-one relationship with the business

owner. So decisions can be made, we can get to the heart of things really

quickly. I can intuitively ask the right questions and we can really move the

needle quickly when we work in that way.

Speaker 3 (21:11):

Totally. Yeah, I love that. That's so interesting. I

haven't even thought about so many people giving their opinions and views, but

I can see how that would be so challenging. So challenging. It's

Speaker 4 (21:21):

Challenging, but then it waters down the strategy, and so

then ultimately it's taken five times as long and it's not as effective.

Speaker 3 (21:30):

Totally. Yeah. Okay. So we brought up something a minute

ago that I want to have you speak to in your experience. So those of us who are

trying to do it ourselves and then we're really hard on ourselves because we're

not good at it. Tell me a little bit about, you said this to me when we were

first raising together. No matter how hard you try to do this on your own, it's

not going to work. So talk to me a little bit about that. What's going on that

makes it so challenging for us to able to DIY, this kind of skill?

Speaker 4 (22:04):

Yeah, it sounds very Debbie Downer and dismal, doesn't it?

It's never going to work, but the reality is it's kind of liberating because

what you realize is that, oh my gosh, I'm not alone. It is this hard for

everybody. And I can tell you, I have yet to work with a business owner that

shows up on a call and says, oh, yeah, I whipped up my copy. It was really fun.

I enjoyed it. Here it is, never ever happened. And it's so hard because we're

basically, the metaphor I like to use is as a business owner, we're kind of

inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside

the bottle. We are so close to ourselves and we are so close to our own

business and we are the business. So it's just all these layers of just being

too close to everything. And in order to write effective copy, you have to have

perspective. The reality is all those nuggets are within you. You've got the

story in there, you've got the right words, you've got the ability. But unless

you have someone to kind of pull that out of you in the right way and then put

the puzzle together in the right order with the right flow and the right

strategy and the storytelling approach, it kind is impossible.

Speaker 4 (23:36):

That

Speaker 3 (23:36):

Makes a lot

Speaker 4 (23:37):

Of sense. Model.

Speaker 3 (23:39):

That makes so much sense to me as a coach, because that's

why we hire a coach. You can't see what's inside your own fishbowl. Yes, you

can coach yourself, but it's only so effective because you're missing the thing

you can't see. Totally, totally. I can see how that is absolutely true. So the

trying to do it ourselves, very, very challenging, if not impossible to make it

work well and then having someone else do it for us, also very challenging

because of those reasons that we talked about earlier. So makes a lot of sense

to me then why you chose the done with you path, the more collaborative

approach. And since I've gone through this, I can speak to this and your

program is writing words that sell in two and a half hours flat, and I did.

Anybody who wants to see the effect of this, one example of it can go to my

website, www.dot com, and at the top of the menu, you'll see the link for the

hundred K funnel course.

Speaker 3 (24:42):

Click on that and it will take you to the page that Kris

and I did together. And I'm cringing a little bit inside when I'm saying this,

but compare that to some of the other pages on my website and see the

difference. It's very, it's wildly different is what I'll say. So I loved the

process that we did because basically what happened was I signed up and then

you sent me, it was like a questionnaire basically that I filled out. I think

it was nine questions that I needed to answer, and I did that. And then you

were like, okay, great. Now schedule your call with me. And we had a 90 minute

call. It was like when we got together, I was so proud of myself, but here was

my mistake. I was like, we already built the site based on just the

questionnaire.

Speaker 3 (25:33):

The way that I answered the questionnaire, you were like,

yeah, yeah, we'll look at that later. And you brought up this whole template

for the site with all the words and everything already on it, and I was

literally mind blown. It was so much better than what I came up with myself.

And now I look at it, I'm like, oh, obviously Neil, that's what she does. She

would be able to see this better than you. But then we spent that entire call

going through that template and just checking in on every single piece of it,

and you were like, what do you think about this? How do you feel about this?

Does this feel in alignment? What do your people think about this? Well, how do

you think they'll react to this? And we just kind of refined it through that

call together. And it was such an easy process for me, and it really was less

than two and a half hours because I filled out that worksheet in, I don't know,

30 minutes maybe, and then our 90 minute call. So for me, I think it was two

hours to get that site done, which is crazy to me.

Speaker 4 (26:36):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think really when you know the right

questions to ask, and then with each question I have a five minute video, so

you're really learning why is this question being asked and what's the meaning

behind it? What's the strategy behind it? So you're kind of learning while

you're answering the questions. And then I get those questions, which is so fun

for me when somebody sends me their homework and then I get to puzzle piece it

together and really craft their story. So I take a first pass at your

wireframe, and a wireframe is really just a roadmap for your website. It's

really like your homepage in black and white, and it's a long format, homepage

or sales page or whichever page you choose. But it's a long format because

number one, we want to tell the full story. And number two, I really like

integrating other pages all on that page.

Speaker 4 (27:38):

Your about page and your services page are all on that

long format wire frame because people like scrolling better than they bouncing

around from page to page, especially when they're looking on mobile. So it's

just this really comprehensive page and it's really a thorough process. But so

I take a first pass at that wireframe and that way that allows us to not start

with a blank page on our 90 minute collaborative session, and I can say, here's

what I'm getting, here's what I'm recommending. Now what we need to do is just

really fine tune, refine, and make sure it's totally dialed in, not only for

you but for your audience.

Speaker 3 (28:22):

And that really was my experience. It was the easiest,

most painless process that I have gone through in terms of writing copy. So

now, so you all know kind of addicted to it, I'm like, okay, Kris, we're going

to redo every single page. So now it's just to be a matter of me getting on her

schedule to be able to do that. But it's so valuable. It's so helpful. I think

if you do choose to work with Kris directly, and we're going to tell you how

you can do that. I think what you'll find is you'll see such a difference in

the page that you create, whether it's a sales page or a homepage or whatever

it is that you'll be like, oh my gosh, now this doesn't even look like the rest

of my stuff. And it'll be like me where you want to now redo everything else to

make it in this format. And the thing that I love about you is your

minimalistic approach, because that really is an alignment with my philosophy

for the world, quite frankly. And so it really landed for me, it really

resonated with me that there isn't a ton of copy in any section. It's really

strategically chosen words and well-placed in a very intentional way as we go

through.

Speaker 4 (29:39):

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And think the other thing that can

kind of let people off the hook is that people don't really read websites

anymore. They scan them, they just scan them really quickly. And so if you

don't write it with a scannable eye in mind, it's not going to get absorbed. So

that's kind of also part of the strategy.

Speaker 3 (30:02):

So I want to go back to a couple other things that we

talked about that are mistakes that many of us make in our copywriting. So

we've talked about a few of them. How about the one that, you said this to me

the other day, that story is super important, and I can't remember the stat

that you told me, but you said something about it's 20 times more memorable

than anything else. Tell me a little bit about

Speaker 4 (30:28):

That. Yeah, so story is our brains are really wired for

story because you think of kind of thousands of years, man has gathered around

and women have gathered around the fire and shared stories. We're truly wired

for it. And this is why it really reaches parts of our brains that are

subconscious. And so the reality is we respond to it. It's why movies are just

so engaging. We forget about everything in our life when we go into a movie or

watch a movie. And what's really cool is that stories are 22 times more

memorable than just facts. Try and think about an event that you went to

recently where there was a speaker and try and recall something that they

shared. The thing that you're going to recall about that is a story that they

shared. It might've been about their childhood or a big mistake they made in

business or whatever. You're going to remember the story, you're not going to

remember pretty much anything else.

Speaker 3 (31:38):

Yes, I mean, I can literally think of right now, Amy

Porterfield just told a story on the podcast I was listening to, and I remember

the story, and then I can always go back to the point she was making with a

story, even though I don't first recall the point that she was making. I just

remember the story that she told.

Speaker 4 (31:56):

That's fascinating. Yeah, that's really, really

interesting. I mean, I think what you're sharing is really the beauty of story

is that we learn through story and we connect through story. And if you're

doing those two things, it does a lot more than that. But that's really

powerful.

Speaker 3 (32:19):

Totally. Yeah. And one of the things you told me that you

see people do in terms of story is in story you've taught me there is a hero

and there's a guide, and many of us get stuck in talking about the hero that we

think we are the hero,

Speaker 4 (32:39):

Right? Right. But

Speaker 3 (32:41):

That's not the case.

Speaker 4 (32:42):

Yeah. Speak a little bit to that. So yeah, I'll give you

the most simple version of story. So essentially every story has a hero and a

guide. And as business owners, we are the guide and our clients are the hero.

The hero's actually the weakest character in every story. They have a problem

that they want to overcome, but they don't know how to overcome it. And so they

are looking to the guide to show them how to overcome their problem. And the

reason we engage in stories like this is because we want the hero to win. We

want them to find success, but we don't know if they've got what it takes. And

we can't disengage. We literally can't disengage. I dunno if you saw Born

Identity or I mean Karate Kids a great example. We can't disengage until we

know Karate Kid won that championship, but we don't know if he can do it the

whole way through. And so that's why they wait till the end to let you know,

because if Karate Kid won the championship 15 minutes in, we'd get up and

probably leave the movie. Very boring.

Speaker 3 (33:54):

Yes, totally.

Speaker 4 (33:55):

Yeah. So what happens is, and this kind of ties in really

well with the fact or just the people that try and write copy for themselves,

you open up a blank document, you're like, oh, what do I put on my website? How

am I going to write my social media? What am I going to write in my emails? I

guess I'll write about me, right? It's my business. I'm going to write about

me. People need to get to know me. And it's like I get why people do that. I

mean, of course, right? Of course you're going to do that. But what happens

when you do do that is you make yourself the hero of your own story. And

there's really only room for one hero in every story. And we really want to

make sure that's our client and not ourselves because what we're really doing

when we tell our brand story, this is not like a once upon a time, my great

grandpa started this business and then I took it over. And it's not that kind

of a story. What we're really truly doing is we're crafting a narrative that

invites our potential customers into a story with us, the hero, and we're the

guide and we show them what success looks like and we help them really know

that they can reach that success with our help.

Speaker 3 (35:19):

And I feel like a little bit about laying out the path for

what is the guide lays out the path that someone's going to take, and it's not

necessarily the entire thing, but maybe it's one step at a time and is leading

them along that journey to whatever success

Speaker 4 (35:35):

Looks like. Absolutely. So absolutely every hero has a

problem. They look to the guide to basically every guide gives that hero a plan

to help them overcome their problem. And so it's really important, this is one

of the most important parts of the website, is to give people a very, very

simple plan of what they need to do. And an example of this could be, number

one, schedule a call. Let's talk about your vision or your dreams or your

goals, and we'll find out if we're a good fit. Number two, I'll put together a

customized plan or we'll work together to make sure you are fill in the blank.

And then step number three typically ends with the happy end result. So the

idea really is that as the guide, imagine you're on one side of a river and

you're heroes on the other side of the river. They really want to make it to

your side. They really want to cross that river and be with you, but they don't

know how. And so what you're really doing by giving them a plan is laying out

three gigantic boulders in the rapids so they know, oh, I need to step here,

then I need to step here, then I need to step here. And now I've reached the

other side. Yeah, success.

Speaker 3 (36:58):

I love that image that you just gave. So that will stick

in my mind now because you just told me story about how to move my client along

the river to the other side. So I love that idea so much. And so since we're

talking about that actually, so take me through the process of somebody working

with you and where they're going to end up at the end of the day. I mean, I've

shared my experience, but in your words, what would be the first thing that you

would have someone do?

Speaker 4 (37:31):

So for my plan or for my program, what's the process

Speaker 3 (37:34):

For your program? If somebody is like, oh my gosh, I

totally need Kris's help, what would be the first thing that you would

Speaker 4 (37:40):

Think? Well, the first thing they'd do is go to grow.red

door designs.com, and that's where all the details are. And once you buy the

offer, you're going to get a 15 minute video of me really showing you the

shortcut to storytelling and StoryBrand. So you don't have to read the book

unless you want to or you've read the book, but you need a refresher. So it's a

real quick, just hear are the fundamentals and then you'll do 45 minutes max

for you. This took you 30 minutes. I have eight different videos and each of

them are only five minutes long. So you'll watch the video and then answer the

question in a Google doc that I give you, it's a Google Doc worksheet. So you

just answer a handful of questions and then share that with me. And then we

schedule a call, a 90 minute call, zoom call between the two of us, and by the

time we get on that call, I've made my first pass at your wireframe, and that

way we can hit the ground running and just fine tune, fine tune and massage it.

Speaker 4 (38:46):

So it's like we knock it out of the park by the end of

that 90 minutes. And then you've got a really clear plan of every single word

that needs to go on your homepage or your sales page, and you can implement it

yourself. A lot of the clients that I work with have built their own sites.

They've got Squarespace sites or Wix, and so within a day or two, they've

implemented the copy and they can start seeing the results right away. And so

that's really exciting. Or they can hand it over to their designer who can

implement it for them. So either way, the designer has really a really clear

idea of exactly what the flow is, what the hierarchy of type is, where images

aren't going to go, where text is going to go. So it's a very detailed plan

that doesn't leave a lot of questions. And then once everything's implemented,

you share with me your final page and then I create a Loom video going through

the entire page just giving you feedback on not only the copy, but the overall

design and even colors, all the details, font, treatments, everything. So you

can really just look at a total professional. I mean, that's the goal. You just

want to build that trust and reach people super effectively.

Speaker 3 (40:08):

And I loved that there was that final review that you did

because I was like, okay, we're good. And then I sent it to you and you're

like, no, I'll do this and change this. And it wasn't huge things. It was just

little minor adjustments, but altogether, it really did make a difference in

the final product that we had, and I was so appreciative that you were there

and doing that for us. And the other thing that I want to say, I think this is

a strategic byproduct that I didn't realize was going to come out of this work,

and maybe you didn't know either, but from my experience now when I go to write

copy for my a hundred K funnel course or I'm talking about it in some capacity

or I'm writing an email about it, I just go back to that webpage and I recycle

half the stuff that we put on that page, and I'm like, it's already done. It's

just like I didn't realize the repurposing byproducts that would happen from

that. And it's really made a lot of things so much simpler for me at least in

terms of that one particular offer that's inside my business

Speaker 4 (41:17):

That has happened time and time again. And that's often

what I tell people, but I actually haven't included that on my page. But that's

a big benefit of the work because basically once you craft your story, that's

your story and you don't have to reinvent the words every time. And the page

really does become your brand Bible. And anytime you're creating copy for

anything, I do it with my own site. When I need copy really quick, I go to my

own site and I just pull from it depending on what I'm writing for, but it's

all there for me and it is like the gift that keeps on giving. It's like that

little workhorse of your business. And so yeah, it's one of the most wonderful

things about it. I'm glad you brought that up.

Speaker 3 (42:04):

Yeah, I can see social posts, emails, maybe you're doing a

webinar where you're promoting it and you just use some of the copy from that.

We've used it in all those capacities already. So it was just like this thing I

didn't even realize was going to happen, and I was so delightful like, oh, I

already did this work. I don't need to redo it.

Speaker 4 (42:24):

Right? Or Instagram profiles, even your profiles, LinkedIn

profiles, it's all there. It's all done. You just copy and paste. You can tweak

it a little if you need to, but it's really liberating to just have it done and

have a resource that is just always there to support you. And so again, we're

just also busy, so however we can save time and be more efficient, that's what

I love about story.

Speaker 3 (42:53):

Yeah. And the other thing I love about it, I mean, does it

make you money? Yes. That's why copper writing is so expensive is because it is

a money making activity, meaning it increases conversion. So yes, there is that

part of it, but in my mind it means that we have the ability to impact more

people and not have to use a lot more of our time to be able to do that. So

it's a very time leveraged activity investment, in my opinion, in our

businesses.

Speaker 4 (43:24):

A hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (43:25):

Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:27):

If you're going to put, somebody asked me this the other

day. They said, when do you know when you should DIY it or when you should hire

a copywriter? And I said, and I don't say this because this is the work I do,

but I say this just because I've been in the business so long. It's like,

here's the deal. It's really hard to write copy and it's very time consuming

and just hire help for your copy and then if you want to save a little money,

DIY, your website design, go to Squarespace. I mean, they don't let you go

wrong. That platform, the templates are beautiful and they're constrained in a

way that you can't make it ugly even if you don't know how to do design. So

that's where you should really save money because the tools are just so good

for DIYing websites these days.

Speaker 3 (44:22):

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And maybe that's where we leave

it is considering if you're going to invest in your business, really thinking

about where the best use of your dollars are. I didn't know until now. I know

that I would invest in working with you and doing copy over some other things

that I had chosen to invest in before, but it's very clear to me now the impact

of that and where, like you said, you can make a choice in DIY, some other

things that are maybe easier to do on your own, as we've talked about, D iy

copy is very challenging, if not impossible to do so I love that perspective.

So anybody who's listening who you're like, I know for sure I want to work with

Kris or I need her help, we're going to link up all the URLs in the show notes,

so feel free to do that. Or like Kris said, the URL for the website if you want

to go to is tell us one more time, Kris, it's

Speaker 4 (45:18):

Grow.red door designs.com.

Speaker 3 (45:22):

Yeah. And Kris has a really amazing lead magnet up right

now. It's called Write Compelling copy in five minutes flat, and I highly

recommend if you want to start there in terms of working with her, that you go

grab that immediately and can they get that at that same website, Kris,

Speaker 4 (45:39):

You can get the free workshop is at Clarity with Kris, and

that's Kris with a K Clarity with Kris.

Speaker 3 (45:49):

Okay. We are going to put that in the show notes as well,

so anybody who's interested in that can go grab that.

Speaker 4 (45:57):

Awesome.

Speaker 3 (45:58):

Kris, thank you so much for coming on and talking through

this with everyone. I obviously adore what you're doing, one of your happy

clients, and thank you. I am just so grateful that our path is connected and I

get to share you and what you're doing with everyone else in the world because

I think it's so, so helpful and it's such a needed thing and they're such a

cool in the market. So thank you for doing what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (46:24):

Oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you for having me here. Thank

you for having this wonderful conversation. Of course, I've loved every minute

of it, and I could talk about story all day long, and it's just a blast. So

thank you for the opportunity. We'll probably

Speaker 3 (46:40):

Have you come back and talk about some other things. I

feel like this is not the end of our conversation. We have many more things to

say about copy. I'm sure

Speaker 4 (46:47):

I would love that.

Speaker 3 (46:48):

Okay. Thanks Kris.

Speaker 1 (46:52):

I'm so excited that you just finished another episode of

the Six Figure Coach podcast. Each time you finish an episode, you are another

step closer to building a business you love in just 10 hours a week. And if you

want more valuable content just like this, make sure you join me over on

Instagram at Neil Williams coach, where I do a weekly funnel fail Friday. This

is by weekly Funnel Roundup, where I share with you what's working and what's

not with my own six figure sales funnels, so you can learn from my failures and

fast track your way to your own six figure funnel success. See you there.